Ombudsman rejected S75 Claim for £12,250.What next?
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Nothing wrong at all but just don't get upset when you don't hear what you wantRelax, I called them this morning. I've sent the info the the clerk. That's as far as I got.
The excellent barrister is very expensive. I still don't get what is wrong with asking for advice on a forum before incurring that cost.
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Nothing wrong at all but just don't get upset when you don't hear what you want
The only time I got upset was when a poster told me I should have got my act together. We had a builder that tried to cut costs by not digging foundations at half the depth and a building control company that allowed it to happen by accepting photos as evidence of compliance with building regs rather than actual inspections. Something you'd see on cowboy builders and yet this builder was recommended by two colleagues.
Despite the settled litigation, we haven't recovered all our costs as you would expect.
This is now just another consequential dispute. I don't need sympathy and it's ok if you don't agree but to say this was my making is unfair. I didn't just buy something then change my mind and ask to return it. I wish the delay hadn't happened and I wish the units hadn't been discontinued. But they did.0 -
The Ombudsman ruled in Tesco Finance's favour as it was a S75 claim against the credit card. The kitchen seller has been on the sidelines and not aware of the Ombudsman claim.
Are you sure it was a section 75 claim and not a chargeback? Just chargebacks require a breach of contract in some way, s75 claims don't. If a section 75 claim, the ombudsman would have likely first considered whether you had a claim against the retailer.
Its not uncommon for banks to raise chargebacks instead of section 75 claims (as obviously chargebacks are more generous towards them).What makes you think that you *ought* to be able to cancel a valid contract and get your deposit back? What sort of a one-sided contract would that be if it's binding on the seller but not the buyer? That is the crux of the dispute.
The real problem is that the kitchen is coming from abroad, and the Pound has fallen. That has pushed up the cost, unfortunately. Somebody has to pay for it, and that somebody is you. Sorry.
You're saying that a contract needs to be binding on both but apparently are oblivious to the fact that allowing one to change what is supplied or the price that it is supplied at equates to the contract only being binding on one party. Each party are only bound by the obligations they agreed to accept. It can only be varied by agreement.
Now it sounds as if OP sought to vary the agreement by delaying delivery. If the supplier agreed to it, its not a breach of contract its a variation.
However OP is doing the right thing getting professional advice - especially since any court action is likely to be outwith the limits of small claims.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0 -
unholyangel wrote: »Are you sure it was a section 75 claim and not a chargeback? Just chargebacks require a breach of contract in some way, s75 claims don't. If a section 75 claim, the ombudsman would have likely first considered whether you had a claim against the retailer.
Its not uncommon for banks to raise chargebacks instead of section 75 claims (as obviously chargebacks are more generous towards them).
You're saying that a contract needs to be binding on both but apparently are oblivious to the fact that allowing one to change what is supplied or the price that it is supplied at equates to the contract only being binding on one party. Each party are only bound by the obligations they agreed to accept. It can only be varied by agreement.
Now it sounds as if OP sought to vary the agreement by delaying delivery. If the supplier agreed to it, its not a breach of contract its a variation.
However OP is doing the right thing getting professional advice - especially since any court action is likely to be outwith the limits of small claims.
Thank you. I didn't seek to change the date at all. No date was ever agreed. Similar to buying a house off plan - you get given notice when it's nearly ready. Seller asked us to let them know when we are 12 weeks from completion.0 -
The only time I got upset was when a poster told me I should have got my act together. We had a builder that tried to cut costs by not digging foundations at half the depth and a building control company that allowed it to happen by accepting photos as evidence of compliance with building regs rather than actual inspections. Something you'd see on cowboy builders and yet this builder was recommended by two colleagues.
Despite the settled litigation, we haven't recovered all our costs as you would expect.
This is now just another consequential dispute. I don't need sympathy and it's ok if you don't agree but to say this was my making is unfair. I didn't just buy something then change my mind and ask to return it. I wish the delay hadn't happened and I wish the units hadn't been discontinued. But they did.
get your act together -"galvanize oneself into organizing one's affairs effectively."
If you think entering a contract for a £25k kitchen and handing over £13k when it was possible that there would be a 15 month delay is effective, then we have different ideas of what it means.
I do feel sorry for you, I didn't mean any offence, but contract law is a harsh mistress, and a court case would be painful.
while stating it was your making might sound unfair, in contract terms you and your agents (the builder) are "you" for the contract, the retailer is the one with little blame.
Everything I've said is supported by what we're been told. Hopefully your barrister will find something in the details you haven't told us to get you your wanted outcome, and I wish you luck, but I'm out.0 -
It was definitely section 75 and what the Ombudsman said on the phone and in the letter was they would act if there was a breach of contract by the retailer. There was no breach which I agree. They couldn't consider whether changing the cost or product fell foul of the Consumer Rights Act which is something I'd asked them to consider. My argument was as you say, the seller is free to change product and price and I am bound to anything they want.0
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martinsurrey wrote: »get your act together -"galvanize oneself into organizing one's affairs effectively."
Everything I've said is supported by what we're been told. Hopefully your barrister will find something in the details you haven't told us to get you your wanted outcome, and I wish you luck, but I'm out.
Thank you.0 -
Thank you. I didn't seek to change the date at all. No date was ever agreed. Similar to buying a house off plan - you get given notice when it's nearly ready. Seller asked us to let them know when we are 12 weeks from completion.
Yes, but clearly neither you nor the seller anticipated that it would be two years later! Kitchen designs are fashion items, and ranges do get changed.
I expect that the seller's contract deals with this sort of delay. Provided it deals with it in an even-handed sort of way (without a significant imbalance in the parties' rights), the terms with survive scrutiny under the Consumer Rights Act.No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?0 -
Just a further question if anyone is still following. What if I take the original kitchen from them, minus the 4 curved units that are not available and get those made by a good carpenter. That would work wouldn't it? Surely the kitchen company has to supply the kitchen then without making us take an alternative more expensive product or setting an expensive price on a cheaper product They could even keep the money for the curved units that are not available. .
Can they say no? Is it breach of contract if they refuse to supply?0 -
Just a further question if anyone is still following. What if I take the original kitchen from them, minus the 4 curved units that are not available and get those made by a good carpenter. That would work wouldn't it? Surely the kitchen company has to supply the kitchen then without making us take an alternative more expensive product or setting an expensive price on a cheaper product They could even keep the money for the curved units that are not available. .
Can they say no? Is it breach of contract if they refuse to supply?
Its a gray area, we don't have the full contract to hand. they could make any number of arguments as to why its not a breach to not supply on the original terms.
One thing I will say is that its seems like a reasonable solution at face value, so if they did refuse, you would have a much stronger position in court as judges like to see where people have tried to compromise.0
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