e.on smart meter query

hss
hss Posts: 110
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edited 13 October 2019 at 1:17PM in Energy
I wanted to renew my tariff with E.on & when I called them yesterday, was told all their tariffs now come with a smart meter. When I said I wasn't yet ready for it due to complaints & incompatibility, she said the 2nd generation are working well.
Even looking at their online tariffs they all include having a smart meter.
I have declined making an appointment at the moment to have one installed, but I find E.ON better on customer service than others so reluctant to switch at the moment.
I DONT DO online or direct debit, pay by cheque quarterly.

So the question is can they insist ALL their tariffs come with a smart meter if you want to stay with them & are other providers now doing the same? They shouldn't pressure you into it.


Thanks for any advice.
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Comments

  • victor2
    victor2 Posts: 7,559
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    They can do it and other providers are also.
    If you get them (they can't install everywhere), what's the problem? You never have to give readings and even if you leave E.On for another supplier, the worst that will happen is that the meters will return to dumb mode and you'll have to take readings again.
    The newer ones are supposedly SMETS2 standard, which will retain their smart facility when you transfer suppliers. Either way, having smart meters won't prevent you switching in the future.

    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the In My Home MoneySaving, Energy and Techie Stuff boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. 

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  • matelodave
    matelodave Posts: 8,586
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    I do not agree with the premise on which you base your question.

    Smart meters are not mandatory.

    Eon will continue to supply you if you wish them to and do not want a smart meter.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/

    You are correct in that smart meters are not legally mandatory however any of the utility companies can make it a requirement if you want to be supplied by them. You have the choice to go somewhere else.

    Most do have a tariff or two that doesn't insist on a smart meter but in a lot of cases you will not get access to the better deals if you refuse to have one.

    In the end, it will cost energy companies more to provide, maintain and process non-smart meter customers and it's likely that the extra cost will (and should) be passed onto those customers who refuse to have one
    Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
  • peterbaker
    peterbaker Posts: 3,083 Forumite
    edited 13 October 2019 at 1:15PM
    matelodave wrote: »
    In the end, it will cost energy companies more to provide, maintain and process non-smart meter customers and it's likely that the extra cost will (and should) be passed onto those customers who refuse to have one
    How do you justify that? My aged parents have been on Economy 10 since the year dot with Eastern Electricity (taken over by e.on years ago).

    Recently they were given an ultimatum by e.on. Get a smart meter and choose a new Economy 10 tariff or an Economy 7 tariff or an "unrestricted" tariff and get shafted, or agree nothing but get shafted harder.

    By e.on's own projections, the increased annual cost respectively in each case based on a £100pm existing average bill for a simple two up two down with no other energy source was:

    +32%
    +23%
    +50%
    +72% (refuse the meter and be forced onto e.on's standard one price all units tariff)

    The majority of their bill is for heating. How is that complex to provide electricity to pass through a resistance to create heat? It doesn't matter what voltage they supply or whether they maintain 50 Hz, the heaters will still heat up.

    Energy companies are shysters especially e.on in my book, but seemingly not in yours?
  • hss
    hss Posts: 110
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    Thanks for all your replies. I don't need snide comments..."Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers".


    The point I was making is whether E.on can force customers into having a smart meter if you want to stay with them?
    I WOULD be quite happy to have one installed, but only when I wanted it, after enough tried & tested research has been done. I'm sure the benefits would make life a lot easier, but there have been lots of complaints from people where they haven't.


    I think many providers are 'shysters', but believe me E.ON are a bit more professional than others I've had to deal with.
    Yes I would think other providers wont push the meters, should be customers choice, but all tariffs I've read on E.on website & spoken to an advisor are quoting you have to have one.
    But you have given me some ideas & I may very well contact CAB.


    Thank you.
  • victor2
    victor2 Posts: 7,559
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    peterbaker wrote: »
    ...
    The majority of their bill is for heating. How is that complex to provide electricity to pass through a resistance to create heat? It doesn't matter what voltage they supply or whether they maintain 50 Hz, the heaters will still heat up....
    Electricity has to be generated by some means and then delivered. Gas needs some treatment, but largely just delivery. Per kWh to the consumer, electricity is 3 to 4 times the price of gas.

    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the In My Home MoneySaving, Energy and Techie Stuff boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. 

    All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.

  • peterbaker
    peterbaker Posts: 3,083 Forumite
    edited 13 October 2019 at 10:35PM
    victor2 wrote: »
    Electricity has to be generated by some means and then delivered. Gas needs some treatment, but largely just delivery. Per kWh to the consumer, electricity is 3 to 4 times the price of gas.
    Actually that doesn't ring very true to me … if gas heating was only a third or quarter the price of electricity then why would any house builder be allowed to get way with installing electric only? And why would there not be more gas-turbine power stations?

    Anyway, I just looked up a deal with Scottish Power (Super Saver November 2020 B3) who I think will install their smart meter for free and match the existing prices per kWh split day/night, and from a quick USwitch projection perhaps reduce £100pm average total to around £80pm total, so I think the shysters at E.ON can probably take a hike tomorrow when I get on the phone. And believe me, after 90 minutes on the phone to their so-called CEO's office (next level up from rock bottom customer service "simpler meters" team), I would never ever refer to their service as "professional". For a start they are very poorly regulated in terms of ensuring customer fairness and in complaints recording and resolution (cf financial services for example). And professionalism involves regular study and personal development and mastery of your subject, and I was teaching them a thing or two, not the other way round. Their Mums might well love them and they were not impolite beyond unwisely repeating some dumb lines which switched on customers tire of hearing just the once let alone three or four times. Sadly the three I spoke with Friday were essentially fixed spiel parrots who have no discretion to operate in any truly professional or ethical marketing fashion. The two lower level persons were the more human and did listen and then acknowledge they understood my responses to their spiel and why I was criticising their company. The CEO office were however completely intransigent and only sounded human after I had tired of putting further argument forward so they believed they had persuaded me with their "the regulator doesn't allow us to offer a another deal just these four options" crap.
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,891
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    edited 13 October 2019 at 10:44PM
    victor2 wrote: »
    Per kWh to the consumer, electricity is 3 to 4 times the price of gas.
    peterbaker wrote: »
    Actually that doesn't ring very true to me … if gas heating was only a third or quarter the price of electricity then why would any house builder be allowed to get way with installing electric only?
    4 to 5 times or more would probably be more accurate. I've just checked my YE E7 tariff and the day rate is 5.88 times as expensive. Even the night rate is 3.21 times as expensive; overall (day + night) it's 5.20. Few builders install electricity only unless gas is not available in the area.

    Electricity only is often the case with rental properties (especially HMOs) because the capital costs of a few storage heaters (or worse, panel heaters) is a lot less than a gas wet central heating system, and the safety checks are less onerous. And of course, the landlords don't have to pay the usage bills !
  • Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc
    Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc Posts: 6,558
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    hss wrote: »
    I wanted to renew my tariff with E.on & when I called them yesterday, was told all their tariffs now come with a smart meter. When I said I wasn't yet ready for it due to complaints & incompatibility, she said the 2nd generation are working well.
    Even looking at their online tariffs they all include having a smart meter.
    I have declined making an appointment at the moment to have one installed, but I find E.ON better on customer service than others so reluctant to switch at the moment.
    I DONT DO online or direct debit, pay by cheque quarterly.

    So the question is can they insist ALL their tariffs come with a smart meter if you want to stay with them & are other providers now doing the same? They shouldn't pressure you into it.


    Thanks for any advice.
    hss wrote: »
    Thanks for all your replies. I don't need snide comments..."Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers".


    The point I was making is whether E.on can force customers into having a smart meter if you want to stay with them?
    I WOULD be quite happy to have one installed, but only when I wanted it, after enough tried & tested research has been done. I'm sure the benefits would make life a lot easier, but there have been lots of complaints from people where they haven't.


    I think many providers are 'shysters', but believe me E.ON are a bit more professional than others I've had to deal with.
    Yes I would think other providers wont push the meters, should be customers choice, but all tariffs I've read on E.on website & spoken to an advisor are quoting you have to have one.
    But you have given me some ideas & I may very well contact CAB.


    Thank you.


    Hello hss and thanks for your interest in renewing with us.

    It sounds like some of the information our advisors have given is wrong and I'm sorry about this. To be clear, not all of our tariffs come with conditions about smart meters. Also, with those that do like our Fix Online range, customers only agree to be contacted about smart meters.

    Smart meters are optional and you can turn down our offers to fit them and stay on the chosen tariff. The relevant T&C is section 11.1 which says the following.

    With this tariff you agree to be contacted during the tariff term for the installation of a smart meter.

    Just a quick heads up, some of our tariffs are only available online and/or with a Direct Debit. As you don't do these, this might be a bit more of an issue.

    The advisor was right about the roll-out of second generation (SMETS2) smart meters. This is in full swing and we're now able to fit SMETS2 around 90% of the time. There are still some remaining issues that prevent us fitting SMETS2. These are down to things like the strength of the mobile phone signal and certain local difficulties. Customers with SMETS2 can change supplier and the meter will retain its smart features.

    Hope this explains hss and sorry again you were given some wrong information.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • hss
    hss Posts: 110
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post
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    Hello hss and thanks for your interest in renewing with us.

    It sounds like some of the information our advisors have given is wrong and I'm sorry about this. To be clear, not all of our tariffs come with conditions about smart meters. Also, with those that do like our Fix Online range, customers only agree to be contacted about smart meters.

    Smart meters are optional and you can turn down our offers to fit them and stay on the chosen tariff. The relevant T&C is section 11.1 which says the following.

    With this tariff you agree to be contacted during the tariff term for the installation of a smart meter.

    Just a quick heads up, some of our tariffs are only available online and/or with a Direct Debit. As you don't do these, this might be a bit more of an issue.

    The advisor was right about the roll-out of second generation (SMETS2) smart meters. This is in full swing and we're now able to fit SMETS2 around 90% of the time. There are still some remaining issues that prevent us fitting SMETS2. These are down to things like the strength of the mobile phone signal and certain local difficulties. Customers with SMETS2 can change supplier and the meter will retain its smart features.

    Hope this explains hss and sorry again you were given some wrong information.

    Malc
    thanks very much Malc. Shame I don't know how to message U
  • Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc
    Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc Posts: 6,558
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    Organisation Representative
    edited 6 December 2019 at 5:16PM
    peterbaker wrote: »
    How do you justify that? My aged parents have been on Economy 10 since the year dot with Eastern Electricity (taken over by e.on years ago).

    Recently they were given an ultimatum by e.on. Get a smart meter and choose a new Economy 10 tariff or an Economy 7 tariff or an "unrestricted" tariff and get shafted, or agree nothing but get shafted harder.

    By e.on's own projections, the increased annual cost respectively in each case based on a £100pm existing average bill for a simple two up two down with no other energy source was:

    +32%
    +23%
    +50%
    +72% (refuse the meter and be forced onto e.on's standard one price all units tariff)

    The majority of their bill is for heating. How is that complex to provide electricity to pass through a resistance to create heat? It doesn't matter what voltage they supply or whether they maintain 50 Hz, the heaters will still heat up.

    Energy companies are shysters especially e.on in my book, but seemingly not in yours?
    peterbaker wrote: »
    Actually that doesn't ring very true to me … if gas heating was only a third or quarter the price of electricity then why would any house builder be allowed to get way with installing electric only? And why would there not be more gas-turbine power stations?

    Anyway, I just looked up a deal with Scottish Power (Super Saver November 2020 B3) who I think will install their smart meter for free and match the existing prices per kWh split day/night, and from a quick USwitch projection perhaps reduce £100pm average total to around £80pm total, so I think the shysters at E.ON can probably take a hike tomorrow when I get on the phone. And believe me, after 90 minutes on the phone to their so-called CEO's office (next level up from rock bottom customer service "simpler meters" team), I would never ever refer to their service as "professional". For a start they are very poorly regulated in terms of ensuring customer fairness and in complaints recording and resolution (cf financial services for example). And professionalism involves regular study and personal development and mastery of your subject, and I was teaching them a thing or two, not the other way round. Their Mums might well love them and they were not impolite beyond unwisely repeating some dumb lines which switched on customers tire of hearing just the once let alone three or four times. Sadly the three I spoke with Friday were essentially fixed spiel parrots who have no discretion to operate in any truly professional or ethical marketing fashion. The two lower level persons were the more human and did listen and then acknowledge they understood my responses to their spiel and why I was criticising their company. The CEO office were however completely intransigent and only sounded human after I had tired of putting further argument forward so they believed they had persuaded me with their "the regulator doesn't allow us to offer a another deal just these four options" crap.


    Hello peterbaker and I'm sorry you've been disappointed with us. Totally understand you're looking to change your parent's supplier. Thought it might be of interest to let you know why we've contacted them about their meter.

    It sounds like they've an old three rate Economy 10 meter. We're phasing these meters out as we can no longer support them and are looking to fit a more up to date model. This project is being looked after by our Simpler Metering team. They'll offer your parents a choice of a new two rate Economy 10 meter or the more conventional Economy 7 or single rate meters. There's no charge for these meter exchanges.

    A new Economy 10 meter will be fitted in the same way as the existing meter. It will be wired into the relevant heating circuits so the heating can be used as now. There's still 10 hours at off-peak rates in each 24 hour period at night, in the afternoon and during the evening. This will be for all usage whereas the older meters only had 5 hours for all usage with the remaining 5 hours limited to heating/hot water controlled by the dedicated heating circuits.

    Alternatively, your parents can choose a conventional single rate or Economy 7 meter. These might not suit the current heating set-up and I'd recommend talking to us or a suitably qualified electrician about any possible implications in going down this path. There are more tariffs available for single rate or Economy 7 meters both with us and with the other suppliers.

    Where possible, smart meters will be offered. As I mentioned in my reply to hss above, smart meters are optional and your parents can refuse them if they wish. In these cases, we'll fit a conventional classic meter.

    I understand from your post that you've already been in touch with our Simpler Metering team and weren't impressed with their response. I'm sorry to hear this as these advisors are responsible for the project. As above, meter exchanges organised by Simpler Metering, smart or otherwise, are carried out without charge.

    Sorry again you've been disappointed with us peterbaker.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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