Legal threat - unjust?
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Derp111
Posts: 14 Forumite
Hi there - long time lurker, first-time poster.
I was just wondering whether anyone could be so kind as to offer me the reassurance I've done the right thing (or advice on where to go and what mistakes I've made or whether I've intepreted it wrong).
To cut a long story short:
- Moving house (day 1)
- Needed cat flap fitting into a window so contacted glazier (day 1)
- Glazier came to measure said window. (day 3)
- Email from the glazing company (day 4) saying:
Dear Derp, "The cost to replace the sealed unit with your cat flap will be £185 including VAT and fitting. Should you wish to go ahead we would require a 50% deposit and I include our bank details for your convenience." Regards, Glazing company
- I call Glazing company asking when they would likely be able to fit it, they say the lead time is 6-8 weeks. (day 7)
- This is too long for me, so after discussing the with OH we get another company who say they can do it this week. (day 8).
- Have various missed calls off the glaziers which I ignore as no longer needed (days 9-45).
- Today, get an email saying:
"Dear Derp, we came over [day 3] to measure your double glazed sealed unit with the hole cut out for the cat flap, your partner Derp2 confirmed the purchase.
Since then we have not been able to contact either of you to arrange installation.
The cost of this bespoke unit is £185. If you do not pay for it before 22nd February 2019 I shall have no alternative but to take legal action to recover the debt"
- I respond:
I think there is a misunderstanding - or lack of communication between your reception and yourself at least. At the measuring, we were told that if we were to go ahead, the catflap would be fitted within a week or so following a deposit. Shortly after the measurement, on the Xth December, I called XXXX saying that we'd had the window measured and wondered when the fitting would likely take place. The lady who answered the phone told us that the "typical lead time is 6-8 weeks", which to us was unacceptable and therefore did not proceed with the installation.
Please see the email copied below from XXXX double glazing on the D/M/Y [Day 4] which entirely refutes your claim from a legal perspective. I think you can clearly see that the purchase is dependent on a deposit being paid and the price includes both the glass and the fitting. Your email explicitly states that the order will only go ahead once a deposit has been made. No deposit, no order. Why did you cut the glass if no deposit was made? The fact that you're asking for £185 and not just the deposit is disappointing for a reputable company. I strongly believe the email below, from a legal standpoint, demonstrates that requesting the full £185 is disingenuous at best.
From a legal basis, I believe we are very surefooted and have the evidence we require to refute your claim."
And that's where I'm up to - with one very panicked partner. To me it feels like they're trying to bully us into paying something that we've not agreed to. Do they have any legal basis? And do I need to contact any legal people (lawyers/CAB) etc before the 22nd? To me the email on day 4 saying that the order will only be confirmed once a deposit is made seems to vindicate my opinion but the legal threat obviously concerns me (as someone who doesn't know what the repurcussions would be).
Thanks kindly for any input and sorry for such a long post.
Derp.
I was just wondering whether anyone could be so kind as to offer me the reassurance I've done the right thing (or advice on where to go and what mistakes I've made or whether I've intepreted it wrong).
To cut a long story short:
- Moving house (day 1)
- Needed cat flap fitting into a window so contacted glazier (day 1)
- Glazier came to measure said window. (day 3)
- Email from the glazing company (day 4) saying:
Dear Derp, "The cost to replace the sealed unit with your cat flap will be £185 including VAT and fitting. Should you wish to go ahead we would require a 50% deposit and I include our bank details for your convenience." Regards, Glazing company
- I call Glazing company asking when they would likely be able to fit it, they say the lead time is 6-8 weeks. (day 7)
- This is too long for me, so after discussing the with OH we get another company who say they can do it this week. (day 8).
- Have various missed calls off the glaziers which I ignore as no longer needed (days 9-45).
- Today, get an email saying:
"Dear Derp, we came over [day 3] to measure your double glazed sealed unit with the hole cut out for the cat flap, your partner Derp2 confirmed the purchase.
Since then we have not been able to contact either of you to arrange installation.
The cost of this bespoke unit is £185. If you do not pay for it before 22nd February 2019 I shall have no alternative but to take legal action to recover the debt"
- I respond:
I think there is a misunderstanding - or lack of communication between your reception and yourself at least. At the measuring, we were told that if we were to go ahead, the catflap would be fitted within a week or so following a deposit. Shortly after the measurement, on the Xth December, I called XXXX saying that we'd had the window measured and wondered when the fitting would likely take place. The lady who answered the phone told us that the "typical lead time is 6-8 weeks", which to us was unacceptable and therefore did not proceed with the installation.
Please see the email copied below from XXXX double glazing on the D/M/Y [Day 4] which entirely refutes your claim from a legal perspective. I think you can clearly see that the purchase is dependent on a deposit being paid and the price includes both the glass and the fitting. Your email explicitly states that the order will only go ahead once a deposit has been made. No deposit, no order. Why did you cut the glass if no deposit was made? The fact that you're asking for £185 and not just the deposit is disappointing for a reputable company. I strongly believe the email below, from a legal standpoint, demonstrates that requesting the full £185 is disingenuous at best.
From a legal basis, I believe we are very surefooted and have the evidence we require to refute your claim."
And that's where I'm up to - with one very panicked partner. To me it feels like they're trying to bully us into paying something that we've not agreed to. Do they have any legal basis? And do I need to contact any legal people (lawyers/CAB) etc before the 22nd? To me the email on day 4 saying that the order will only be confirmed once a deposit is made seems to vindicate my opinion but the legal threat obviously concerns me (as someone who doesn't know what the repurcussions would be).
Thanks kindly for any input and sorry for such a long post.
Derp.
0
Comments
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I can't see a contract being formed there. Ignore them.0
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I can't see a contract being formed there. Ignore them.
Not necessarily. A deposit is not necessarily acceptance.
Op doesn’t state whether when they measured and stated a lead in of 6-8 weeks whether it’s was accepted or not
I’ll paste a possible scenario from their perspective
- I call Glazing company asking when they would likely be able to fit it, £185 seems good, lets go ahead - by the way, how soon can you fit it? (Seems like possible ground to argue acceptance has taken place?) they say the lead time is 6-8 weeks. (day 7)
- This is too long for me, so after discussing the with OH we get another company who say they can do it this week. (day 8). at no point is the possible acceptance cancelled
- Have various missed calls off the glaziers which I ignore as no longer needed (days 9-45).perhaps they are calling to take deposit, having proceeded in good faith - op ignored them for 45 days or, 6 weeks (coincidentally the minimum lead in period)
Just saying perhaps the supplier have acted in very good faith.... ignoring them for 45 days is hardly fair or reasonable0 -
Also, the company assert that ‘derp 2’ confirmed the purchase somehow. Whether verbally or otherwise is still offer and acceptance.
Just saying be sure they don’t have something on you in this Regards before simply ignoring them.0 -
I'm assuming the OP hasn't omitted significant points like that.Dean000000 wrote: »Op doesn’t state whether when they measured and stated a lead in of 6-8 weeks whether it was accepted or not0 -
I agree with Dean000000 in that it wasn't particularly reasonable to just close off communication with them after you'd decided not to proceed. Nor was it reasonable to ignore their calls for five weeks when answering one of them and simply saying thanks but no thanks would have done the trick. Why did you muck them around like that when they'd done nothing to deserve it?
I don't think they have a leg to stand on but as you are now discovering, you're having to put an awful lot of worry and effort into disputing their claim when a single phone call or email six weeks ago would have ended the matter. Whilst I don't believe you owed them the business, you did owe them that courtesy. There are a lot of good tradespeople and small businesses out there working in good faith and doing a good job. Customers who behave as you have might make them a little more hard-nosed and expensive in future, and we'll all pay for that.0 -
I'm assuming the OP hasn't omitted significant points like that.
I am quickly learning that op’s with gripes on here regularly omit important details that work against them....
Not saying this is the case on this occasion....just offering an possible scenario where the company may have believed a contract was struck....
Simply ignoring them is a recipe for disaster, if, (and I’m not saying there is) there is more to this story and/or details omitted.0 -
Is there anything in writing saying you or your other half accepted? if not just ignore it.
They need something, the deposit would have been enough but as you didn't pay it then there is nothing unless it's in an email or something. So just ignore them from now on and only worry about it again when and is a summons comes through.0 -
Dean000000 wrote: »Not necessarily. A deposit is not necessarily acceptance.
Op doesn’t state whether when they measured and stated a lead in of 6-8 weeks whether it’s was accepted or not
I’ll paste a possible scenario from their perspective
- I call Glazing company asking when they would likely be able to fit it, £185 seems good, lets go ahead - by the way, how soon can you fit it? (Seems like possible ground to argue acceptance has taken place?) they say the lead time is 6-8 weeks. (day 7)
- This is too long for me, so after discussing the with OH we get another company who say they can do it this week. (day 8). at no point is the possible acceptance cancelled
- Have various missed calls off the glaziers which I ignore as no longer needed (days 9-45).perhaps they are calling to take deposit, having proceeded in good faith - op ignored them for 45 days or, 6 weeks (coincidentally the minimum lead in period)
Just saying perhaps the supplier have acted in very good faith.... ignoring them for 45 days is hardly fair or reasonable
Hi - thanks for this. To clarify about timelines - the reason we got them initially was because they said they could get it done within a week or so. It was then after they came and measured and sent the email asking for a deposit to proceed that I called them to sort the day out and was then told the lead time was 6-8 weeks - I absolutely did NOT agree to this, nor the deposit. This was a huge shock - we needed it urgently as the cats hate being stuck inside (keeping the door open through winter was not a possibility). I was pretty annoyed with them as I'd taken time off work to be in for it, and then they'd moved the goal posts afterwards. Hence, I ignored them from that point on.0 -
Is there anything in writing saying you or your other half accepted? if not just ignore it.
They need something, the deposit would have been enough but as you didn't pay it then there is nothing unless it's in an email or something. So just ignore them from now on and only worry about it again when and is a summons comes through.
Thanks - all contacts are included in the post. I don't suppose you can point me where to go/look at for if a summons comes through the post? My OH is terrified of having to go to court. Thanks.0
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