Electric cars

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  • welfayre
    welfayre Posts: 182 Forumite
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    zeupater wrote: »
    Hi

    Odd approach to take really, it's not as if it was one of their competitors that intentionally mislead their customers on emissions but then to state that “Such an industry can crash faster than many believe” is pretty near incredulous!

    Okay, if VW can't build cars to meet customer demand then someone else will, so it's now down to Herbert Diess to make an executive choice ... do VW react to the challenge of market change and increase investment, or will it be a case of hiding heads in sand, moan to/lobby the EU (where VW is probably currently out of favour anyway!) and watch their market share fade? ...

    I doubt that there'd be much sympathy within the EU automotive sector for any VW exec lecturing on emissions ... the recent (/current) mayhem on sales created by the industry view that the WLTP/emissions timetable could be influenced through a commonly applied pressure approach was totally scuppered when someone decided to throw in an emissions scandal (or two!), so the opportunity vanished, throwing many manufacturers into total timetable panic!

    For around a century the automotive sector has been manufacturer led ... times are changing, the whole sector needs to consider the true meaning of 'customer focus' is related to the consumer, not the OEM ...

    Come on VW, stop talking excuses & start doing, else appoint a new 'chief' that can actually deliver a business plan based on low emission vehicles without the company needing to 'manipulate reality' ...

    HTH
    Z

    Probably worth doing your own research on the subject rather than relying on the very bias pieces put up by Martin (out of interest Martin do you write for them or something or only read confirmation sites?). VW are investing something like €20billion over the next decade in zero emission vehicles and are converting at least one of their plants to 100% ev production by 2020.

    I had a quick look on Statista and it shows that vw's operating profit, sales revenue and unit production are up on last year so it appears it's got a handle on its customers demands.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    TBF, VAG have had hybrids in their mainstream range for nine years now, and full electrics for five years.

    You've argued similar for PSA, so why are these companies scared then? Wouldn't it be simpler if they just started churning out EV's, instead of concepts and excuses?

    The market direction is now clear, and VW (and all German car companies) can surely build top rate EV's in the near future (5yrs or less(?)), so they need to build on that, pull down the costs, and start selling millions of EV's.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    edited 12 October 2018 at 8:09AM
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    welfayre wrote: »
    Probably worth doing your own research on the subject rather than relying on the very bias pieces put up by Martin (out of interest Martin do you write for them or something or only read confirmation sites?). VW are investing something like €20billion over the next decade in zero emission vehicles and are converting at least one of their plants to 100% ev production by 2020.

    I had a quick look on Statista and it shows that vw's operating profit, sales revenue and unit production are up on last year so it appears it's got a handle on its customers demands.

    Are you claiming that the statements attributed to Volkswagen chief Herbert Diess are not true, or that you know better than him?

    Edit - not sure why you don't like Cleantechnica, or think they are a confirmation bias site since they support RE and EV's.

    They've covered VW's investment in EV's and batts:

    Volkswagen Agrees To Invest $40 Billion In Electric Car & Mobility Tech By 2022

    Volkswagen Doubles EV Battery Order To $48 Billion
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    edited 12 October 2018 at 8:14AM
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    You've argued similar for PSA
    I love the way you say "You've argued similar"...
    All I did there was state a simple, and very easily verifiable, fact.

    so why are these companies scared then?
    With the "PSA" piece a while back, the amount of spin on a very small part of a much wider speech to leap to the conclusion of "scared" was closing on simple mendacity.

    I've not looked at the truth behind this VAG piece, but I strongly suspect similar.
    Here's coverage from a more neutral source - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/vw-ceo-sees-cost-of-electric-car-lineup-as-higher-than-expected
    Seems obvious that he's talking about the need for rebasing investment from a much wider perspective. It's not exactly news that VAG have had issues - the US emissions cheat, their current WLTP woes. They have a history of cost estimates proving way out - development of the MQB platform went WAY over budget, leading to a profits warning.

    Wouldn't it be simpler if they just started churning out EV's, instead of concepts and excuses?
    Again, I think you seem to be denying simple existing reality where it doesn't suit your preconceptions. VAG have had EVs in showrooms for five years, and hybrids for near-on a decade.
  • buglawton
    buglawton Posts: 9,235 Forumite
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    Subsidy on hybrids to be cancelled in November and on all-EVs, reduced from £4,500 to £3,500.
  • buglawton
    buglawton Posts: 9,235 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Putting aside issues about Tesla, it's interesting to see how safe EV's can be compared to ICE's in general.

    #1, #2, #3 — Tesla Model 3, S, & X = USA’s Safest Cars & Top Selling Electric Cars
    When a Tesla battery caught fire it took 200 gallons of water/foam to put it out. Then it reignited 5 days later. I guess that would apply to any EV.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    Reductions in Government subsidies, and removal for PHEV's, looks like they will be concentrating on BEV's (and REX's) going forward .... sounds sensible(?)

    Car groups condemn grant cuts for electric and hybrid vehicles

    Reformed Plug-In Car Grant extended into next decade
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    buglawton wrote: »
    When a Tesla battery caught fire it took 200 gallons of water/foam to put it out. Then it reignited 5 days later. I guess that would apply to any EV.
    Lithium Ion is Lithium Ion.
    https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_with_li_ion
    https://nerc.ukri.org/about/policy/safety/procedures/guidance-lithium-batteries/
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    Again, I think you seem to be denying simple existing reality where it doesn't suit your preconceptions. VAG have had EVs in showrooms for five years, and hybrids for near-on a decade.

    I'm happy with my reality, as I'm sure Herbert Diess has a better handle on VW than yourself. But it's interesting that my posting the news, is to you a preconception, if said news doesn't suit your position on EV's.

    As I see it (or have seen it all year on here) you simply deny all articles that disagree with your position, even if that means disagreeing with the statements made by car companies themselves.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    No, posting the news is not a preconception. Posting the news according to a source with a heavy bias IS part of a preconception, as is then denying that bias when presented with other sources which show the fuller context.

    Denying the existence of showroom-available EVs from non-favoured manufacturers is also part of your preconception.


    BTW, we aren't seeing the Tesla Q3 financials quite yet - they should be imminent, going by the publication date from previous quarters - but the production figures were released a week or so ago. The Bloomberg Model 3 production tracker that I've posted here a few times has been confirmed as basically bob-on Tesla's own figures - Model 3 production averaged a snidge over 4,000 cars/week over the quarter.
    http://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesla-q3-2018-vehicle-production-and-deliveries
    Yes, it's absolutely a big leap forward - nearly +90% over Q2. But it's still the level they were most recently predicting for about half-way through Q2, and originally predicting for half-way through Q4 2017.


    That Q2 update congratulated the team on hitting 5,000 cars/week imminently, with an expectation of 6,000/week by the end of July.

    http://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesla-q2-2018-vehicle-production-and-deliveries


    I wonder if anything can be read into the Q3 production update not giving a figure for the reservation queue? At the end of Q2, it was stated to have remained static at ~420k, despite shipping starting in volume and high levels of reported cancellations at the start of the quarter.
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