Advice on new patio

Matt19849 · 8 May 2018 at 11:03AM

Hi,

I am currently digging out 46m2 for our new patio and have a couple of questions I was hoping to find answers to

I was looking at a 50mm sub base of Type 1, is there a difference between Type 1 Limestone or Type 1 concrete or should I be looking at something else?
Because this patio is up against our house I'm very reluctant to use a vibrating wacker plate because we have a 650 litre aquarium against the wall and can't risk that cracking from the vibrations. Would a manual type wacker plate or roller (the ones you put water in) work just as well?
We are going with 20mm thick porcelain slabs, has anyone had any experience with Eterno Ivica Star.T Thin Pedestal Paving Support Pad or anything similar?
(I would post a link but i'm a new user and not allowed sorry!

Cheers

Furts · 8 May 2018 at 4:43PM

Type 1 limestone or recycled/crushed concerete will be fine. Then use a hand tamp along the edge by the house. I would not be bothering with a roller. As for your choice of slabs ... 20mm thick porclalin for use outside sounds crazy to me. But if you have manufacturer approval and laying instructions, and prepared for the pitfalls of porcelain, then so be it.

Head_The_Ball · 8 May 2018 at 4:50PM

Matt19849 wrote: »

...(I would post a link but i'm a new user and not allowed sorry!

Cheers

If you upload pictures to a hosting site and then post the links but break them somewhere (split them into two halves), I or someone else will fix the links and post the images for you.

I use Postimage but there are plenty of other free hosting sites.

Matt19849 · 8 May 2018 at 5:11PM

These are the items we were looking at:
https://
www.
tilefixdirect.
com/product/VVZ-START

Regards the downsides to Porcelain - what are they? We've read downsides to sandstone and limestone slabs so reverted to these being less maintenance....

These were the slabs we were considering:

https://
www.
tiles-direct.
com/xl-format-tiles-c1554/rak-lounge-dark-grey-59cm-x-90cm-x-2cm-outdoor-floor-tile-p3236/s3231?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=rak-lounge-dark-grey-59cm-x-90cm-x-2cm-outdoor-floor-tile&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=CjwKCAjwlcXXBRBhEiwApfHGTWKD1AKxBhFYrLvFmcG2Pdp34L94vDg3WxozPunSCuMRem2rLT-foBoCa98QAvD_BwE

EssexExile · 8 May 2018 at 6:34PM

https://www.tilefixdirect.com/product/VVZ-START

https://www.tiles-direct.com/xl-format-tiles-c1554/rak-lounge-dark-grey-59cm-x-90cm-x-2cm-outdoor-floor-tile-p3236/s3231?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ra%20k-lounge-dark-grey-59cm-x-90cm-x-2cm-outdoor-floor-tile&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=Cj%20wKCAjwlcXXBRBhEiwApfHGTWKD1AKxBhFYrLvFmcG2Pdp34L94%20vDg3WxozPunSCuMRem2rLT-foBoCa98QAvD_BwE

Furts · 9 May 2018 at 6:53AM

I have ceramic tiles in my kitchen. They chip, they crack, they are deadly when wet - the thought of using them outside on your supports horrifies me. Add this to the concept of the supports and the 20mm thickness and there is no way I would be specifying, or doing, what you are proposing.

With care, endless patience, and so on it may turn out fine so best of luck.

Matt19849 · 9 May 2018 at 8:52AM

Furts wrote: »

I have ceramic tiles in my kitchen. They chip, they crack, they are deadly when wet - the thought of using them outside on your supports horrifies me. Add this to the concept of the supports and the 20mm thickness and there is no way I would be specifying, or doing, what you are proposing.

With care, endless patience, and so on it may turn out fine so best of luck.

These aren't ceramic tiles/slabs, they are porcelain. There is a good article here on the difference:

https://
tiledevil
.co.uk/blogs/style/choosing-porcelain-or-ceramic-tiles

Nothing has been bought yet, that was why I posted the questions asking of advice or alternatives

Furts · 9 May 2018 at 9:27AM

Matt19849 wrote: »

These aren't ceramic tiles/slabs, they are porcelain. There is a good article here on the difference:

https://
tiledevil
.co.uk/blogs/style/choosing-porcelain-or-ceramic-tiles

Nothing has been bought yet, that was why I posted the questions asking of advice or alternatives

Porcelain tea services are white ceramic, my floor tiles are white ceramic, they are intended for showers and such like and it is almost certain they are porcelain. I use the generic term ceramic. I stand by my earlier comment - no way would I use these items externally, nor would I entertain your proposed method.

But also give a little credit here. For generations mankind has bedded slabs on mortar set to falls and the jobs have been perfect. Use concrete at say 40-50mm (your choice) and the product choice, quality and durability cannot be faulted. However, you wish to cut the thickness to 20mm, suspend huge slabs on flimsy plastic corner legs and expect that to take impact loads from wheelbarrows being dropped, or the spinning blade of a lawn mower? Plus you have ignored my comments about slipping, about cracking, and about chipping.

I am mystified why you are not taking the time proven, everyday, simple, cheap, way to form your patio. But that is your choice and I respect that.

Matt19849 · 9 May 2018 at 1:42PM

Furts wrote: »

Porcelain tea services are white ceramic, my floor tiles are white ceramic, they are intended for showers and such like and it is almost certain they are porcelain. I use the generic term ceramic. I stand by my earlier comment - no way would I use these items externally, nor would I entertain your proposed method.

But also give a little credit here. For generations mankind has bedded slabs on mortar set to falls and the jobs have been perfect. Use concrete at say 40-50mm (your choice) and the product choice, quality and durability cannot be faulted. However, you wish to cut the thickness to 20mm, suspend huge slabs on flimsy plastic corner legs and expect that to take impact loads from wheelbarrows being dropped, or the spinning blade of a lawn mower? Plus you have ignored my comments about slipping, about cracking, and about chipping.

I am mystified why you are not taking the time proven, everyday, simple, cheap, way to form your patio. But that is your choice and I respect that.

Nothing is being ignored, i'm taking everything in - as I say nothing has been fully decided i'm looking for advice not for people to slate ideas that I put forward.

Regards slipping the tiles I mentioned they are anti slip tiles. I was hoping the cracking and chipping wouldn't be an issue due to the thickness of them
Going by what I have read porcelain doesn't stick to mortar hence the pedestals i've mentioned, these say they can take the weight of porcelain.

We are after a smoother light grey slab, we haven't been able to find this in anything other than Porcelain.

We have also read you need to treat Limestone and Sandstone slabs yearly which we don't want to do if we can avoid it.

Sadly I came on here hoping for advice but getting very little advice and more of a grilling for asking!

Furts · 9 May 2018 at 2:22PM

Matt19849 wrote: »

Nothing is being ignored, i'm taking everything in - as I say nothing has been fully decided i'm looking for advice not for people to slate ideas that I put forward.

Regards slipping the tiles I mentioned they are anti slip tiles. I was hoping the cracking and chipping wouldn't be an issue due to the thickness of them
Going by what I have read porcelain doesn't stick to mortar hence the pedestals i've mentioned, these say they can take the weight of porcelain.

We are after a smoother light grey slab, we haven't been able to find this in anything other than Porcelain.

We have also read you need to treat Limestone and Sandstone slabs yearly which we don't want to do if we can avoid it.

Sadly I came on here hoping for advice but getting very little advice and more of a grilling for asking!

You are getting advice. I have given advice over your MOT 1 materials, and I have advised on compaction. Your response has been to ignore both comments - no acknowledgement, no thanks. I have then advised on your porcelain but this time given a personal view. This is based on personal experience with this material. Again you decide to be negative. I have added constructive, factual, engineering based views on your slabs and your supports. Again you decide to be negative. I have suggested the time proven alternative method of laying and the time proven material. Again your response has been negative.

Your method is trying to reinvent the wheel. It is risky and it is inappropriate for your project. The fact that you have no grasp of this does concern me. That is why i took the time to respond and to attempt to guide. Clearly you do not wish to take on board any decent advice. Consequently, I wish you well.

Matt19849 · 9 May 2018 at 2:30PM

Furts wrote: »

You are getting advice. I have given advice over your MOT 1 materials, and I have advised on compaction. Your response has been to ignore both comments - no acknowledgement, no thanks. I have then advised on your porcelain but this time given a personal view. This is based on personal experience with this material. Again you decide to be negative. I have added constructive, factual, engineering based views on your slabs and your supports. Again you decide to be negative. I have suggested the time proven alternative method of laying and the time proven material. Again your response has been negative.

Your method is trying to reinvent the wheel. It is risky and it is inappropriate for your project. The fact that you have no grasp of this does concern me. That is why i took the time to respond and to attempt to guide. Clearly you do not wish to take on board any decent advice. Consequently, I wish you well.

Fair do's - I appreciate all your advice and everything is taken on board!

I'm not being awkward, not ignoring anything that is being said etc just still no clearer on what I should be doing

Thanks for the Type 1 advice - that has been taken onboard.

Regards not using the pedestals thats fine but when mortar apparently doesn't stick to porcelain i'm not sure the best way forward.
With regards to not using porcelain, as I mentioned I haven't found the type of slab that we want to use other than this one (colour and smoother etc) so feel there is no other option at the moment.

I'm not here to argue with people but if the answer is don't do it then it would be nice to have some alternatives if possible

You mentioned you aren't sure why i'm not using the proven, cheap, easy method. That is mainly because we can't find the right colour slab so trying to find a solution for what we can find

Advice on new patio

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