Do I have to accept alternative flight?
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dialdfordave wrote: »Perhaps not but it would seem that the powers that be don't consider a 4 hour delay to be inconsequential. See https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delays/ where it states you will be due compensation for a delay of 3 hours or more.
EU261 compensation is entirely separate (and a flight changed weeks in advance is different to cancellations at the time of the flight) , the OP has a contract with the tour operator and that contract will say flights can change by up to 12 hours .I Would Rather Climb A Mountain Than Crawl Into A Hole
MSE Florida wedding .....no problem0 -
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EU261 compensation is entirely separate (and a flight changed weeks in advance is different to cancellations at the time of the flight) , the OP has a contract with the tour operator and that contract will say flights can change by up to 12 hours .
The original T&C's are obviously broken as the airline is no longer trading.
As I have repeated many many times, I'm sure ATOL rules take effect here, I'm just trying to drill down into what the tour operator is/was legally obliged to offer.
It's pretty clear that nobody here can answer the question, so I will keep doing my own research until I find the answer.0 -
IMO your contract is still with love holidays and their t and c apply
But it seems you know all the answers so not sure why you came on here asking0 -
IMO your contract is still with love holidays and their t and c apply
But it seems you know all the answers so not sure why you came on here asking
Well, it's simple. I know what I know but I don't know what I don't know.
What I don't know for sure, is whether they were obliged by ATOL rules to give the option of a refund. That's all this is about. It's not about whether T&C's apply and how much of a delay is reasonable according to contract or any of that, it's just whether ATOL rules state that a refund must be offered.0 -
Maybe I am wrong, but as I see you have a contract with the tour operator
Their T&C state that the flight could be altered by up to 12 hours.
Who operates the flight is irrelevant, you are still getting the flights, and your holiday.0 -
Well it does actually seem that ATOL might not apply in this case after all, but LoveHolidays has the responsibility to resolve the situation, according to the CAA.
LoveHolidays own T&C's say this:
"In relation to Package bookings only, in the unlikely event that we or your Service Providers have to make a significant change to your Package, we will tell you as soon as reasonably possible. You will then have the option to:
accept the proposed change. If this results in a Package of lower quality or cost, you may be entitled to a price reduction in accordance with paragraph 13 below;
reject the proposed change, terminate your Package and take an alternative one if we decide to offer this. If you decide to take an alternative Package, we will inform you of its impact on the price of your booking. If the alternative Package is of a lower quality or cost, you may be entitled to a price reduction in accordance with paragraph 13 below, or
reject the proposed change and terminate your Package with a full refund."
So I suppose it now comes down to quibbling about what is "significant", because they haven't defined it anywhere in their T&C's. Since EU261 compensation is paid for a 3 hour delay, I think it can be reasonably assumed that anything 3 hours or more is significant, with the absence of any detail in the T&C's.
I will call LoveHolidays tomorrow and see what they say.0 -
Maybe I am wrong, but as I see you have a contract with the tour operator
Their T&C state that the flight could be altered by up to 12 hours.
Who operates the flight is irrelevant, you are still getting the flights, and your holiday.
There is nothing in LoveHolidays T&C's stating that a flight time can be altered by up to 12 hours. There may have been in Thomas Cook T&C's but they obviously don't apply now that the flight has changed to easyJet.
It could perhaps be argued that who operates the flight is irrelevant but IMO it is not so with the timing of the flight. LoveHolidays booking process lets you choose between different flight times, airports etc and we actually chose the Thomas Cook flight due to it's timing. If the only option was the easyJet flight at the later time, we would not have booked the holiday at all.0 -
dialdfordave wrote: »I will try to simplify by summarising everything I know, as I believe some people might be confusing regulatory (ATOL) with T&C's. T&C's cannot override regulatory as far as I am aware.
A package was booked via LoveHolidays which included a (one way) flight with Thomas Cook.
Thomas Cook went bust
LoveHolidays rebooked a flight with easyJet, on the same day but 4 hours later. They did not contact us about this to ask whether it would be suitable, or if we would prefer a refund, they just went ahead and did it.
To the best of my knowledge, LoveHolidays will be bound by whatever the ATOL rules say, their T&C's cannot override regulation or law (otherwise we would all be abused by loads of unfair clauses in contracts),
LoveHolidays have some less than clear information on their own web site. One part says:
"We have now contacted all customers who are due to travel up to July 2020.*
For those customers who have requested refunds, we are working to process these as quickly as possible".
This would suggest they have contact all customers and offered refunds to at least some of them. However it then goes on to say:
"We are in the process of emailing all our affected customers (who were not yet contacted), to advise them on their holiday options. You will shortly receive an email from us with three main options:
Keep your current holiday and choose a new alternative flight (some options will be at no cost, some options will require an additional payment from you to secure these alternatives),
transfer what you’ve already paid for your current holiday onto a new holiday (plus a little bit extra on us!). Your current holiday will be immediately cancelled and replaced with your new holiday*
cancel your current holiday and get a full refund**"
This seems to suggest they have not yet contacted everybody, contrary to the previous statement, though it does again suggest that they are offering refunds to those affected. This is AFAIK in keeping with ATOL rules (which remember, their T&C's cannot overrule).
So I guess there are two questions now.
1. Why were we not offered a refund when their own web site says they will offer one?
2. Do ATOL rules actually mean they have to offer a refund even when there is another suitable (in some peoples opinions, at least) flight available.
Some inconsistencies theredialdfordave wrote: »Hi all
I've spent some considerable time on Google but I have not found the answer to my specific question.
I have a package holiday booked, which originally included a return flight with Thomas Cook.The agent has (without any prior contact with us) replaced the original Thomas Cook flight with an EasyJet flight (due to Thomas Cook going bust) which does not fit in with our other arrangements, as it leaves almost 4 hours later and creates significant inconvenience for us.
My question is basically, do I have to accept this flight or do I have the right to a refund?
Cheers
Dave
I can't see how 4 hours is going to cause any major inconvenience, apart from having to sit around an airpot waiting for your flight.0 -
Some inconsistencies there
I can't see how 4 hours is going to cause any major inconvenience, apart from having to sit around an airpot waiting for your flight.
Errr one way and return can still be the same thing .
Though, for what its worth OP. No, this is not significant.
Your best way forward (if you really want to cancel a refund) is to appeal to their better nature.
Quoting ATOL, T+C’s and EU law at them is likely to get their (and anyone’s) back up....0
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