Capability Hearing
Comments
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What did people get in the redundancy round?0
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First today's update, queried my lead about a copy of the feedback on my interim appraisal, he simply pushed till the end of the day and then reluctantly approached our supervisor. It did seem like he was talking about my request since they were mumbling couldn't quiet hear what happened there.. And all this happened just few minutes before he left for the day, so I didn't get any response... sadly.. conveniently ignored.
Tomorrow I will put a bit more emphasis on my request0 -
getmore4less wrote: »I suspect trying to stay will be a non starter,
In this game it is about pecking order and who carries influence.
The instigator/driver of this to back down from the stance we need to get rid of this person would require someone higher in the pecking order to overrule and undermine that person, unless you have influence with someone above the person driving this, you are leaving one way or another.
One thing you must get in the agreement is the removal of any contract clauses that restrict you job opportunities like working for competitors.
You could also aim to get the SA externally visible as a redundancy
if a tight industry sector you need to be networking your imminent availability.
I think you said your recent project were successful in getting more business that could be a useful insight for a competitor looking to gain some market share.
I do know someone at really the top level but then to be honest I have given up myself plus at this point in time I have lost all faith and trust in that company.
Your point about being careful with that clause about working for competitors is an interesting one. Didn't realise this could be a problem, but good to know that.
And yes I have started to network despite the tight conditions but although it may take some time the chances of it to happen are there...0 -
scaredofdebt wrote: »I'd negotiate the figure and take whatever you can get, over and above that. Their offer is actually quite generous, I would try to get more and ask for a termination date as far into the future as you can get so you have time to start looking for another job.
Also ask them about favourable references and as mentioned above, removing any clauses in your contract that might limit your options.
Obviously get this all in writing.
Legally they are treading a fine line by giving a date to something that hasn't been agreed, it might constitute constructive dismissal but I am not an employment lawyer.
(their offer is probably better than you would get if you wont an industrial tribunal)
This is exactiy why I wanted to see if I can push the date of termination so that I can reduce the amount of time I'm jobless. As you commented perhaps I can politely flag about the 'constructive dimissal' phrase and see if they are melting..0 -
getmore4less wrote: »What did people get in the redundancy round?
I don't know getmore4less but I can say they are generally very cautious about obeying law as they are world leader in this business and wouldn't take a chance with their reputation especially during such difficult times..
Their salaries however aren't the best in the industry but they gave job security all these years until recently.. and since the merger with people across the channel (another company that bought us)..0 -
In contact with any of those made redundant to get a hint on if it was better than statutory?
These could be good networking contacts for a new job if they have got new jobs.
In my industry the first thing you do when looking is poll all the old work buddies to let them know someone is available.
I don't understand why they did not just make you redundant?0 -
getmore4less wrote: »In contact with any of those made redundant to get a hint on if it was better than statutory, these could be good networking contacts for a new job if they have got new jobs in my industry that's the first think you do when looking is poll all the old work buddies to let them know someone is available.
I don't understand why they did not just make you redundant?
I have a lot of questions too in this regard about this sudden preposition and whether this is just a start of another wave or it is just me!! This is why I'm trying to get more information..
Yes it is about time I do more effort in checking the status of the people who left..0 -
Today, a little more productive than yesterday.
In the afternoon, after two nags, my supervisor finally forwarded the appraisal forms to me, with both my lead and his feedbacks on it. I had scheduled a meeting at 3pm with HR (an informal one) and I had only 10 minutes to review what was there in the reviews. Anyway overall the reviews were similar to my last quarter so no surprises contrary to my thoughts.
It was also a little shocking to learn that my Manager never discussed either the PIP or the SA with my supervisor. He seemed little upset when I told him how discouraging he was about the PIP and was only keen to send me out. Supervisor did admit he wasn't surprised about the PIP but then was hoping I would take it and prove it. So he was taken aback when I said I lost confidence when my own Manager wasn't keen to keep me. Admittedly I couldn't believe my supervisor's reactions but anyway I asked him how was he going to be running the project with only two people, he was pretty relaxed and said I will just put that forward to the Manager as he is the one who will be calling the shots. To sum it up I think for various reasons now, it doesn't seem fitting for me to stay there any more. As many here suggested I will make the best of the situation and leave promptly.
HR was very receptive although I'm totally aware that both my Manager and HR have a common aim here so was cautious!! I started off with my unhappiness over how the management has dealt with recession and how unfair it has been to its long term staff. I told her that tactfully people like me have been sidelined from good projects for a significant period to make case through the appraisal that our performances where not in level to people with similar positions but doing better projects. I also told that it was very un realistic PIP for someone like me, she commented they can request the PIP to be changed if that was the case. I'm not interested in that option anyway now..
I did get the feeling that the management has already picked few more people to do this exercise. Will wait and watch..
After that I wanted to get a bit more information about the SA itself so that I can take a bit more time to decide on what I can ask for, below is a summary of that,
1. No internal opportunities in the other departments as of now.
2. Date of termination is flexible but only after I agree that I will exit
3. Garden Leave is doable
4. Support for Re-training in an area of my choice
5. Assistance with out placement services (CV etc..)
6. Tax free termination pay is negotiable - haven't said anything yet but she said you can give us a proposal for us to evaluate and consider.
7. Can be agreed that I resigned the position rather than as an SA
I'm very grateful to MSE and all the people who have been so honest and sincere with their comments and suggestions for my case here. I have learnt a lot and I really hope many others in a similar situation like me can take some useful pointers from this thread.
As always, would appreciate your comments and suggestions and I promise they will be greatly received.
Thanks0 -
Voluntary redundancy to be stated as the reason for leaving - not resignation. Resigning without a job to go to is no better than being sacked - many employers will assume that you've done something to be sacked for! Voluntary redundancy is actually meaningless, but since nobody knows that, it doesn't matter.0
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That's really good. I work with a different sector of professionals and once a date for termination had been given for an SA, it stayed. If extended then the final lump sum would also go down2. Date of termination is flexible but only after I agree that I will exit
If you resign what guarantee have you got that everything else will be honored if not leaving under an SA? This makes me uneasy.....7. Can be agreed that I resigned the position rather than as an SASaving money right, left and centre0
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