Capability Hearing

getmore4less · 21 July 2018 at 8:36PM

if 44 11 years service is 12.5 weeks capped a £505.

palasmy · 22 July 2018 at 7:05AM

getmore4less wrote: »

if 44 11 years service is 12.5 weeks capped a £505.

Then the difference would be even more... i.e. the SA package is higher.

In such a situation, I'm sure they would bring this up to say they are already offering a much higher scale than the redundancy deal. However, the biggest difference between redundancy and SA is that you can access as insurance for your income protection whilst for SA you can't is that correct??

This is why i felt requesting for another month would give me a bit of extra time to hunt in the market..

sangie595 · 22 July 2018 at 10:32AM

You need to check your insurance terms - some cover mutually agreed termination, and some don't.

It doesn't matter whether it is or isn't more than redundancy - push back and ask for more. Greed had nothing to do with it. It's a haggle. This is normal and if they won't offer more, they'll tell you - but don't accept the first answer! When you were in the Middle East, you must have haggled at times? You have to be prepared to walk away from the haggle. It isn't something that happens all in one go at a meeting. You have to be prepared to make sure they know that you'll fight any dismissal and that you'll make it cost them more!

lulu650 · 22 July 2018 at 1:52PM

I would also add that your employer wants you to leave on 3rd August and would have already drawn up the draft copy of the SA. I'm sorry but I can guarantee there will be no extension to the termination date, so you are looking at increasing the settlement figure.

You'll find this out yourself by asking them to change the termination date.

palasmy · 22 July 2018 at 3:48PM

sangie595 wrote: »

You need to check your insurance terms - some cover mutually agreed termination, and some don't.

It doesn't matter whether it is or isn't more than redundancy - push back and ask for more. Greed had nothing to do with it. It's a haggle. This is normal and if they won't offer more, they'll tell you - but don't accept the first answer! When you were in the Middle East, you must have haggled at times? You have to be prepared to walk away from the haggle. It isn't something that happens all in one go at a meeting. You have to be prepared to make sure they know that you'll fight any dismissal and that you'll make it cost them more!

Agree I should definitely give it a shot but just trying to see how to counter them. Am I correct in thinking that they surely won't like the idea of me taking the PIP route plus as lulu650 says if they had already drawn an agreement(for me to leave on 3rd Aug) then they would agree for a further rise... just that as you say I need to make them know that by asking for more.

In the mean time can I talk to my lead and discuss to find out what actually happened during the interim appraisal review. My manager is away for the whole of next week, will his absence have any impact be it positive or negative. I do get the feeling that the HR and my department appear to be not so working in tandem as I anticipated. HR was upfront and asked my Manager to be very supportive to me by asking him to provide all the necessary details I needed about my PIP or any other information that I may find helpful in making my decision. I do agree that end of the day they are working towards one common goal here..

palasmy · 22 July 2018 at 6:32PM

Just wondered if I keep asking them to explore other options to keep me within the company, for instance positions in other departments where some of my skills are still transferable, would that help my negotiations to get more money from them... I knew well they don't want to keep me

sangie595 · 22 July 2018 at 7:02PM

Actually they really cannot set your termination date as 3rd August - they haven't dismissed you and you haven't agreed to leave! What they want and what they get are not the same thing. Dates can be changed - it only requires using the delete button and replacing the text! Nothing is set in stone until you say it is. And if they were that certain of their ground then there wouldn't be an offer on the table at all - that's be dismissing you via the PIP. So you can ask for absolutely anything you want. You might not get it, but you definitely won't if you don't go after them! So you decide to agree and go quietly - or you don't.

And when you have a new job, then you need to join a union. With the greatest of respect, you really are rubbish at this, and you need someone who isn't rubbish at it by your side! Fair enough, there's no reason you should know how to fight back, but as with anything else in life, if you don't know how to do something, you need to pay for someone who does....

palasmy · 23 July 2018 at 6:15AM

Thanks Sangie and apprecaite your honest opinions. I certainly will join an union if I work for someone again...

I guess I would rather be rubbish here in forum than in the front of my HR on a negotiation table. I'm just trying to identify areas that I should touch and those that I shouldn't be using for my negotiation.

The bottom line is, I have to make a call by this friday whether I take the offer or not. Today I will try and gather a bit more information through my lead as to what was his feedback in my apprasial. I feel knowing a bit of this can give me some help for my negotiation.

Thanks

getmore4less · 23 July 2018 at 7:44AM

I suspect trying to stay will be a non starter,

In this game it is about pecking order and who carries influence.

The instigator/driver of this to back down from the stance we need to get rid of this person would require someone higher in the pecking order to overrule and undermine that person, unless you have influence with someone above the person driving this, you are leaving one way or another.

One thing you must get in the agreement is the removal of any contract clauses that restrict you job opportunities like working for competitors.

You could also aim to get the SA externally visible as a redundancy

if a tight industry sector you need to be networking your imminent availability.

I think you said your recent project were successful in getting more business that could be a useful insight for a competitor looking to gain some market share.

scaredofdebt · 23 July 2018 at 12:28PM

I'd negotiate the figure and take whatever you can get, over and above that. Their offer is actually quite generous, I would try to get more and ask for a termination date as far into the future as you can get so you have time to start looking for another job.

Also ask them about favourable references and as mentioned above, removing any clauses in your contract that might limit your options.

Obviously get this all in writing.

Legally they are treading a fine line by giving a date to something that hasn't been agreed, it might constitute constructive dismissal but I am not an employment lawyer.

(their offer is probably better than you would get if you wont an industrial tribunal)

Capability Hearing

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