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Going to court for parking in my own spot

MrDramatique
MrDramatique Posts: 58 Forumite
Dear all,

EDIT: Cannot post links due to being new...
EDIT #2: Links now included with obfuscation.

I'm going to court and I need your help! I'm confident of my case and want to further solidify my efforts with your direction.

I have posted before on forums regarding my parking charge notice(s) issue in their infancy but for the life of me cannot find them or remember any of my login details which is very unlike me but I suppose describes my state of mind between work and this particular issue but I digress.

I have 6 PCNs from District Enforcement all dated within a month or so for parking in my own designated spot outside my apartment. The reason as to why I was not displaying a permit is due to naivety, as a new driver. I've lived here for about two years and started driving in October 2018 and my first PCN came a few days after. The reason I didn't even notice any signage was because it was fairly new and hadn't been up as long as I've lived there.

Naturally after the first 'infraction' I would have moved my car but my car is a company lease and it takes them what seems like a whole ice age to actually pass things on so as I received the first PCN they had passed on near enough at the same time that DE issues their last PCN.

Where I'm up to
  • I have six PCNs that have all been bumped up to £160, totalling £960.
  • Appeal was rejected. £60 to £100.00 after DE essentially refuses to negotiate.
  • £100.00 to £160.00 - £60 increase due to DE's 'administrative costs of recovering debt' however the first instance of this increase being documented was in Gladstone's letter which just goes to show how closely they work together and get around obviously inflating costs.
  • Gladstones are representing DE as per.
  • While DE passed all PCNs on to Gladstones, I have two seperate LBC. The first LBC contains the first PCN and the second LBC includes the remaining five.
  • Gladstones has started a MCOL for the first PCN only and have apparently received no such instruction to proceed with the other five as of yet. I believe they are testing the case with one PCN so they get another go at the other five. I have emailed for confirmation on this to both DE and Gladstone's with no reply.
  • The claim was issued against me on 07/05/2019.
  • My acknowledgment of service was submitted on 11/05/2019 and received next day
  • DE/Gladstones have noted in their claim particulars of the first PCN that "I agreed to pay it" which is entirely false and the submitted documents from the subject access request confirm that.
  • DE/Gladstones have been made aware that I am in receipt of a land lease contract that documents granted rights to the owner in regards to parking. They don't have the specifics but I have taken photos so show you guys.


I've started to compile my defence which I think will end up being in PDF form so I can attach all evidential appendices as there's a fair amount.

Defence

2. In summary I wish the court to order:

The claim be dismissed on the grounds that:
a. The claimant has stated that I have agreed to pay this charge when in fact I have not. The data that the claimant provided as part of a subject access request provide evidence that is this is not the case.
b. I’m a tenant of ###, Plot 78 (Appendix A, Deed Plan - hxxps://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-BR4n5vrnUsJlnyWOXkJS50xLOaLJlLi?usp=sharing) and the rights afforded to me (Appendix A, Second Schedule: Granted Rights - hxxps://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-BR4n5vrnUsJlnyWOXkJS50xLOaLJlLi?usp=sharing) extend to the designated parking bay which supersede any implied contract from District Enforcement signage.
c. The claimant’s amount claimed on the received county court claim form actually includes an extra £60.00 for ‘contractual costs’ while there is no such contract that states this. According to a letter from Gladstone’s Solicitors the ‘contractual costs’ are in fact “time spent and resource facilitating the recovery of charge”. This charge isn’t mentioned in any of the claimant’s letters and while upon close inspection it is mentioned on signage, that particular text is entirely illegible when parking. You’d have to be within a foot or two to read this which makes this aspect of the claim, in my view, illegitimate. If it is deemed legitimate then I can only assume the maximum debt recovery cost would be £40 for the £100.00 value claimed like any other business.
d. The signage (hxxps://ibb.co/iC7dJL) states “A CHARGE OF £100 per day, payable within 28 days, will be due from the driver of any vehicle parked at these premises where either:
- not authorised to park,”
I would argue that it is entirely fair to assume that being a verifiable resident would constitute authorisation. Specifically, the sign does not define what the claimant deems to be authorised or otherwise.
e. The signage isn’t visible upon entry of the Derby Court courtyard or when parking / parked. Photos are provided (appendix ###) as well as a hosted video recording link (appendix ###).

----This is where I am up to in terms of a defence. Notes follow after this points of which I need to expand on


f. Signage, isn’t legible as it’s too far away. Measures 1cm in height from stood in parking bay.

g. Signage, small print is too small to form a clear contract regarding extra charges

h. Signage, not visible at all when dark, not illuminated and too far away to read.

i. Signage doesn’t include a large 'P' sign which would give indication to approach and read.


---

I would be very open to anyone's opinions on my case and I will answer any questions as quickly and diligently as possible.
«13456714

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,634
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    my defence which I think will end up being in PDF form so I can attach all evidential appendices as there's a fair amount.
    You need to look at the example defences in the NEWBIES thread and read bargepole's post linked there about COURT PROCEDURES, because you don't attach ANYTHING at defence stage! This is merely a defence stage handled by the central processing point at the CCBC and not your evidence stage that comes later once the hearing date is set at your local court.
    my car is a company lease and it takes them what seems like a whole ice age to actually pass things on so as I received the first PCN they had passed on near enough at the same time that DE issues their last PCN.
    OK.

    Have you ever admitted who was driving, and is there more than one possible driver?

    Did DE reissue the PCNs to you, in your name, or not?
    DE/Gladstones have noted in their claim particulars of the first PCN that "I agreed to pay it" which is entirely false
    Calm down, that's standard wording for the contract they allege was AGREED BY CONDUCT. In the ParkingEye v Beavis case it was established that a parking contract is AGREED by the conduct of the driver parking.

    That's what Gladstones mean so this is not for you to address by saying ''that's false, I never agreed and the SAR proves it''. The SAR has nothing to do with agreement by conduct.

    However your defence will be like the other residential ones as I am sure you didn't agree to pay more than your flat's rent per day, to park the car. And you have primacy of contract, as per your lease/tenancy agreement, and you were there first with established right & easements, as you said:
    I've lived here for about two years and started driving in October 2018 and my first PCN came a few days after. The reason I didn't even notice any signage was because it was fairly new and hadn't been up as long as I've lived there.
    Fair enough. So what did the email or letter say that arrived with the permit attached and we assume you were given no 'opt out' option for your allocated bay?

    Do you own the flat or rent it?

    You can show us photos of the signs, etc., by hosting your images in Dropbox, then getting a 'share' URL link for the images and then breaking the link (change http to hxxp and/or add gaps in the URL) as you are a newbie who can't post working links yet.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • MrDramatique
    MrDramatique Posts: 58 Forumite
    Coupon-mad,

    Thank you so much for your reply.

    Yes, I do need to read that, that was meant to be one of my questions as I was adamant I read elsewhere that evidence wasn't required at that stage.

    I admitted to driving yes. Perhaps naive but as far as the director and I as concerned at the time it was the best option as Arval the lease provider charge heavily per instance of correspondence to anyone at £12.50 exc VAT a pop. It's a business lease vehicle of which I have a personal insurance policy for however I believe the directors insurance would allow the use of said vehicle yes.

    Standard wording... agreed by conduct - got it.

    No permit or notice arrived to say that the car park was being managed in anyway or form. The owner/leaseholder wasn't aware and she moved out when I moved in. The letting agent also wasn't aware. So yes renting and also the tenancy agreement mentions nothing or parking but I am told that is standard practise to stay out of issues such as this lol

    I'll update the links in the original post now with your tip!
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,432
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    The claim was issued against me on 07/05/2019.
    My acknowledgement of service was submitted on 11/05/2019 and received next day.
    With a Claim Issue Date of 7th May, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 10th June 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's three weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence and it is good to see that you are not leaving it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
      Print your Defence.
    1. Sign it and date it.
    2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    Have you read this?

    https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/06/residential-ticket-only-cancelled-after.html

    Does your AST mention the need for a permit, and if so does it state that there is a charge for non display. If not then your AST has supremacy of contract over the scmmer's signs, and they will likely lose in court.

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • MrDramatique
    MrDramatique Posts: 58 Forumite
    The_Deep wrote: »
    Does your AST mention the need for a permit, and if so does it state that there is a charge for non display. If not then your AST has supremacy of contract over the scmmer's signs, and they will likely lose in court.

    AST? Sorry can't work out that acronym but assume you are referring to my lanlords lease/purchase documents?
    The_Deep wrote: »
    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.



    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

    It's a bit of a shame in terms of timing, I have been speaking to my local MP's team and a particular assistant of his was really helpful and very concerned. They invited me down to a short open session with my local MP which unfortunately was overrun with people barking about brexit which meant I had to wait a fair bit. However in that time, I was introduced to a lovely counsellor for my town and he was a time-served, retired solicitor. He seemed fairly confident in the lease documents I had and could not find any reason why the granted rights would not be passed down from owner to tenant. He advised that my MP wouldn't be able to help a great deal due to lack of legal expertise.

    Sorry back to the shame part; I've never seen law reach royal assent without any actual law yet. Which makes it hard to reference to someone, even an MP. I hope the new code of practise isnt a cop out but the independent appeals could spell real trouble for these cowboys.

    I will be able to get one to one time with my local MP if required but I'm simply at a loss as to what to ask of him.
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 22,162
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    AST = Assured Shorthold Tenancy, basically your lease.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,256
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    AST? Sorry can't work out that acronym

    You don't have to, try Google.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assured_shorthold_tenancy
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • I'm due a call from someone in litigation at Gladstones that can discuss particulars in my case and make decisions. Is there anything that shouldn't be discussed as I forgot to mention that this call had been arranged.

    I was going to simply mention the primacy of the lease contract and discuss what it says. Any point? Absolutely don't do it?

    Naturally don't want to damage my case.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,256
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    Gladstones are suing you. Why do you think they will provide you with any help of more benefit to you than to them?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,634
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    Any point,
    NO.
    absolutely don't bother?
    I wouldn't.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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