Why do some cyclists use the entire lane, use fog horns, and flashing lights?????????
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Hedgehog99 wrote: »Re fog horns: as a now ex-cyclist (who gave up because it just got too damn nasty out there), I fitted a fog horn as a last resort. I had a bell too of course. FH was reserved for necessary occasions only, such as needing to be heard by a bus or lorry driver or by a pedestrian using headphones, or for covering the expletives of teenagers (their response to my polite "excuse me, please" or one ding of bell) and taking them by surprise with it so they shut up and stop being obstructive for long enough to let me pass.
thank you for your contribution, can you tell us more, why you think cycling is so nasty out there, and what is your mode of transport now?Trinidad - The hottest place to go0 -
I'm glad you accept that it is good sense that they are not recommended on unlit roads.They are legal, and they are the best type of light for being noticed, and for being identified as a cyclist. That was why they were used before they were legal, and why they were legalised. They are not recomended for use on their own when there is no other streetlighting, which makes good sense.
I would also say that current LED lights are plenty bright enough, and flashing lights really serve no purpose as far as alerting motorists to the presence of another road user.
To point out that eye-level bright flashing lights are a hazard.You just did. Why?
Pulling up close behind a car with one of those flashing into the mirrors is inconsiderate at best.
Thanks; actually, I am considering the IAM.Perhaps it's time to retake a driving test. If you did you would discover the correct lane position for road users. http://www.driving-test-success.com/road-positioning.htm
That's not what the HC says.If a lane is exceptionally wide, one should stay towards the left of that lane to allow other road users to use the space if necessary, but in normal lane width, the centre is where you should be.
To repeat, the HC says to keep left, and that is what other road users expect.I trust you now understand that it doesn't contradict any of the Highway Code. The requirement to keep left is to keep to the left side of the road, the left lane if there is one, unless there is a reason not to. Advanced drivers will often move to the offside of a road to get the best view - it allows them the best opportunity to see and be seen.
As I said, that contradicts the rules which other road users are working to.Bikeability is the government approved cycle training organisation, and they (and all other cycle training groups) recommend using the primary road position (centre lane) unless there is good reason (there usually is) to adopt the secondary position.
I don't accept that; there are responsible, considerate cyclists and there are selfish, belligerent ones.Cyclists do not want to inconvenience motorists. They consider their safety as the most important aspect of their ride, so many will adopt a primary position for that reason alone. Motorists will usually be unaffected by this, unless they wanted to overtake when it is unsafe to do so.
Depending upon the particular road, cyclists may indeed greatly affect motorists.
Do you cycle mainly in the city?
Your "we" assumes that I'm not a cyclist.Have a good read of the Bikeability and Cyclecraft advice on Primary and Secondary road positioning for cyclists. It makes really good sense, and will help you understand why we do what we do.
I walk, drive and cycle, and I was a participant in the trials of the new traffic light, roundabout and road markings systems at the TRL a year or two back, both cycling and driving.
My fundamental point remains that (some) cyclists appear to believe that they may use a different set of rules on the road to motorists, and that (a) leads to misunderstandings, (b) is dangerous, and (c) inconveniences motorists.0 -
Well, since you ask, no my car is not a 50s car, and no it doesn't have airbags and rear seatbelts; I would have a general expectation that it might do better than the HC braking distances though.So are you driving around in a 1950s car that conforms to the braking distances in the highway code?
Does your car have airbags and all other other modern safety features?
Rear seatbelts?
However, whilst there are Morris Minors and suchlike on the road, those rules do apply; not in terms of what a modern car must do, but in terms of what you might expect another car to be capable of.0 -
trinidadone wrote: »there are a number of things i see floors with, regarding your last message.
firstly, there is confusion, you are not me, and therefore if i feel there is confusion, i am entitled to say so. the part about moterists using the "centre" of a lane. i have never seen two cars share a lane. when a vehicle is in a lane, they are in a lane. they are not positioned, left, right or centred, like a bike is, they are simple in a lane. hense confusion for me there. sure a vehicle can wonder over lines, but they are in a lane, not a centre part of the lane, or left part or right part, there simnple is no room. the lanes of traffic are designed for the average car. theres alot of london buses who cant fit in the lanes because the lanes are too small.
The only reason i have heard why cyclist cycle in the centre of a lane is to be visable and to avoid car doors. i assume with red flashing lights and a road with no doors, cycles can stay in the left part of the lane. I am not sure if cyclists should decide if they do not want to be overtaken. if its a one lane traffic, fine, but two lanes, no parked cars, well lit, blar blar. Have you ever thought, some cyclist may cycle in the middle part of the lane may cycle in the middle part of the lane other than visability issues or park car problems which will affect the progress/speed of other road users?
I dont agree the average moterist understands the positioning of cycles at all. While this maybe made aware to cycle users, i dont think the average driver who passed there test previousely has any knowledge of cycle positioning. i know i never, but then i am not a cyclist, so why would i??? Lastly, i think positioning creates vast tension with other road users.
If you are still confused than I feel it must be wilful confusion, ie you choose not to understand.
Lane position for cars and cyclists is all about safety. Most motorcyclists will ride towards the right hand side of their lane, to see and be seen. Car drivers should position themselves for view too, which means that if they are on a left hand bend they should be nearer the centre line, if on a right hand bend they should be nearer the nearside, although in choosing these positions there should be no safety compromise. Otherwise, the centre of the available lane is advised.
There is really no difference for cyclists, but they have the added consideration that they are generally slower moving and more vulnerable. So they should position themselves in their lane so that they can be seen well. That means they shouldn't ride in the gutter. They also don't want to be close to parked vehicles for numerous reasons, doors opening, pedestrians walking out etc. The nearside of a road tends to have more drain covers and is more pot holed, so that's also a good reason to stay out. They have as much right as a motorist or motorcyclist to position themselves in the centre (or most suitable part) of the lane, but in recognition that they tend to be slower moving, and to allow freer flow of traffic they will often position themselves in a secondary position, between half and one metre from the kerb, to allow cars to pass more easily when it is safe for them to do so.
As a car driver your progress should not be obstructed by a cyclist in primary position unless there is good reason. A responsible motorist should be able to understand the reason why the cyclist ahead is in primary, whether it be pot holes, junctions, parked cars etc, or whether it is simply that the cyclist would not feel safe if you were to use the lane that he is in to overtake, because there is not enough room to allow him to maintain his 'safety bubble'.
These are not difficult concepts to grasp. Motorists don't need to know about primary and secondary. They just need to recognise cyclists as equal partners on the road, and understand what they are doing and why, rather than wrongly believe that they know better.Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
I don't like the overly bright flashing lights but as a motorists I find flashing lights differentiate cyclists from other vehicles. This is useful information as cyclist may be travelling at different speeds to the other traffic. When cyclists are filtering they're easier to see among numerous white lights especially in the rear view mirror and on a clear road its likely they will be travelling slower.
I would also say that current LED lights are plenty bright enough, and flashing lights really serve no purpose as far as alerting motorists to the presence of another road user.0 -
I'm glad you accept that it is good sense that they are not recommended on unlit roads.
I would also say that current LED lights are plenty bright enough, and flashing lights really serve no purpose as far as alerting motorists to the presence of another road user.
A flashing light WILL attract the eye better then a steady one.
When I was commuting by bike I would have a flashing and a static light.
The flashing one, as stated for being noticed and identified as a bike, the steady one for my own vision and also because it is easier for the motorist to judge distance and position of a steady light than a flashing one, so best of both worlds.
I always understood the "Keep Left" in the HC to mean keep to the left lane of the carriageway, not keep to the left side of the lane.
Of course as a cyclist then, depending on road conditions, you do tend to keep to the left of the lane, but motorists should understand why sometimes that isn't possible, practical or safe to do so.0 -
As explained previously, the primary position is often used to prevent unsafe overtaking. An 8 feet wide lane can contain a 2 feet wide bike and a 6 feet wide car next to each other but it is not safe to do this. The cyclist often needs to ride further from the kerb to avoid drains etc and there also needs to be a gap between the cyclist and passing car for the cyclists safety. Often motorists fail to leave enough space between their car and the cyclist. This is unsafe for the cyclist. Often when the road is too narrow for a car to pass safely cars will still overtake ignoring the cyclists safety.trinidadone wrote: »there are a number of things i see floors with, regarding your last message.
firstly, there is confusion, you are not me, and therefore if i feel there is confusion, i am entitled to say so. the part about moterists using the "centre" of a lane. i have never seen two cars share a lane. when a vehicle is in a lane, they are in a lane. they are not positioned, left, right or centred, like a bike is, they are simple in a lane. hense confusion for me there.When a car is in a lane it tends to fill most of that lane. It will be centered because there is no other option. A bike is narrower so has more options regarding lane position. sure a vehicle can wonder over lines, but they are in a lane, not a centre part of the lane, or left part or right part, there simnple is no room. the lanes of traffic are designed for the average car. theres alot of london buses who cant fit in the lanes because the lanes are too small.
The only reason i have heard why cyclist cycle in the centre of a lane is to be visable and to avoid car doors. i assume with red flashing lights and a road with no doors, cycles can stay in the left part of the lane. I am not sure if cyclists should decide if they do not want to be overtaken. if its a one lane traffic, fine, but two lanes, no parked cars, well lit, blar blar. Have you ever thought, some cyclist may cycle in the middle part of the lane may cycle in the middle part of the lane other than visability issues or park car problems which will affect the progress/speed of other road users?
I dont agree the average moterist understands the positioning of cycles at all. While this maybe made aware to cycle users, i dont think the average driver who passed there test previousely has any knowledge of cycle positioning. i know i never, but then i am not a cyclist, so why would i??? Lastly, i think positioning creates vast tension with other road users.
If motorists followed the advice in the highway code using the primary position to prevent overtaking would not be necessary.
Often it is not possible to leave this much space between the car and bike. At a pinch point for example. If so the car should not overtake. Unfortunately many do.
Passing a driving test is a starting point. Drivers learn from experience. You may not be a cyclist but as a driver you should be capable of sharing the roads with them and other forms of transport.0 -
Norman_Castle wrote: »As explained previously, the primary position is often used to prevent unsafe overtaking. An 8 feet wide lane can contain a 2 feet wide bike and a 6 feet wide car next to each other but it is not safe to do this. The cyclist often needs to ride further from the kerb to avoid drains etc and there also needs to be a gap between the cyclist and passing car for the cyclists safety. Often motorists fail to leave enough space between their car and the cyclist. This is unsafe for the cyclist. Often when the road is too narrow for a car to pass safely cars will still overtake ignoring the cyclists safety.
If motorists followed the advice in the highway code using the primary position to prevent overtaking would not be necessary.
Often it is not possible to leave this much space between the car and bike. At a pinch point for example. If so the car should not overtake. Unfortunately many do.
Passing a driving test is a starting point. Drivers learn from experience. You may not be a cyclist but as a driver you should be capable of sharing the roads with them and other forms of transport.
It's good to see that the cyclist in the above is keeping left, as the Highway Code stipulates.0 -
The highways are free to use for all. Motoring costs are irrelevant. Motoring taxes are revenue raising, not a charge, toll or fee to use the roads. The highways are funded through general taxation paid by all.trinidadone wrote: »Even more less space for other moterists, who i am sure have paid a small forune to use our roads,0 -
RichardD1970 wrote: »A flashing light WILL attract the eye better then a steady one.
When I was commuting by bike I would have a flashing and a static light.
The flashing one, as stated for being noticed and identified as a bike, the steady one for my own vision and also because it is easier for the motorist to judge distance and position of a steady light than a flashing one, so best of both worlds.
I always understood the "Keep Left" in the HC to mean keep to the left lane of the carriageway, not keep to the left side of the lane.
Of course as a cyclist then, depending on road conditions, you do tend to keep to the left of the lane, but motorists should understand why sometimes that isn't possible, practical or safe to do so.
The HC does not specify a multi lane carriageway, so therefore the keep left is a general rule.
Of course, it does not mean you have to drive in the gutter scraping long the pavement, and indeed doing that would mean you were batting pedestrians out of the way with your handlebars!
But as the above picture shows, the HC intends the responsible cyclist to keep left on a single carriageway.0
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