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  • FIRST POST
    • harttss3
    • By harttss3 21st May 19, 10:14 AM
    • 15Posts
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    harttss3
    Contactless cards
    • #1
    • 21st May 19, 10:14 AM
    Contactless cards 21st May 19 at 10:14 AM
    I think it would be a great idea if banks would allow you to set an alarm cap on spending via contactless, say perhaps 3 contactless transactions in one hour trigger a need to enter a pin. This would be particularly useful if you lost or had your card stolen and didn't immediately know. 30 transactions can soon empty your account. My bank, Nationwide, have told me this is not something they would consider.
Page 1
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 21st May 19, 10:26 AM
    • 4,525 Posts
    • 2,894 Thanks
    Robin9
    • #2
    • 21st May 19, 10:26 AM
    • #2
    • 21st May 19, 10:26 AM
    Lots and lots of threads on here re contactless. Use of contactless needs discipline just like the use of cash and cheques and control of bank accounts knowing when standing orders and DD's are due.

    If you don't trust yourself with contactless - cut the card up.
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 21st May 19, 10:34 AM
    • 2,322 Posts
    • 5,203 Thanks
    Zanderman
    • #3
    • 21st May 19, 10:34 AM
    • #3
    • 21st May 19, 10:34 AM
    I think it would be a great idea if banks would allow you to set an alarm cap on spending via contactless, say perhaps 3 contactless transactions in one hour trigger a need to enter a pin. This would be particularly useful if you lost or had your card stolen and didn't immediately know. 30 transactions can soon empty your account. My bank, Nationwide, have told me this is not something they would consider.
    Originally posted by harttss3
    There's already a 3 transaction limit every 24 hours isn't there? So 3 in one hour would force a stop anyway.
    • 20SmthngSver
    • By 20SmthngSver 21st May 19, 10:45 AM
    • 239 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    20SmthngSver
    • #4
    • 21st May 19, 10:45 AM
    • #4
    • 21st May 19, 10:45 AM
    Lots and lots of threads on here re contactless. Use of contactless needs discipline just like the use of cash and cheques and control of bank accounts knowing when standing orders and DD's are due.

    If you don't trust yourself with contactless - cut the card up.
    Originally posted by Robin9
    If you don't want to use Contactless or don't trust it, you can opt out. Just go in branch, send a secure message, or call up, and ask for them to remove it and send a new one without it. Some will try and ask why and convince you it's secure, but they can't refuse. Here is a list of those to do allow it (most do).

    https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/banking-security-and-new-ways-to-pay/new-ways-to-pay/contactless-cards-ah1q15s797hb
    .....
    Home Deposit Savings: 38,650
    Pension: 11,700
    ..
    • Stompa
    • By Stompa 21st May 19, 10:46 AM
    • 7,879 Posts
    • 3,908 Thanks
    Stompa
    • #5
    • 21st May 19, 10:46 AM
    • #5
    • 21st May 19, 10:46 AM
    There's already a 3 transaction limit every 24 hours isn't there?
    Originally posted by Zanderman
    Well I've certainly done 10 or more transactions within a few hours without being asked for my PIN.
    Stompa
    • 20SmthngSver
    • By 20SmthngSver 21st May 19, 10:46 AM
    • 239 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    20SmthngSver
    • #6
    • 21st May 19, 10:46 AM
    • #6
    • 21st May 19, 10:46 AM
    There's already a 3 transaction limit every 24 hours isn't there? So 3 in one hour would force a stop anyway.
    Originally posted by Zanderman
    No, not necessarily.

    Read this article about how some banks can let you make as many as 10 Contactless transactions without PIN in a few hours.

    https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/banking-security-and-new-ways-to-pay/new-ways-to-pay/contactless-cards-ah1q15s797hb
    .....
    Home Deposit Savings: 38,650
    Pension: 11,700
    ..
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 21st May 19, 10:50 AM
    • 2,322 Posts
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    Zanderman
    • #7
    • 21st May 19, 10:50 AM
    • #7
    • 21st May 19, 10:50 AM
    No, not necessarily.

    Read this article about how some banks can let you make as many as 10 Contactless transactions without PIN in a few hours.
    Originally posted by 20SmthngSver
    Ok, I stand corrected, though I'm unsure, from that article, what bank policy is. The article says:

    In 2016, we asked volunteers to use their tap-and-pay cards on the high street, spending between 20 and 30 each time, and to keep shopping until they were asked for a Pin, to see how much a thief could spend unchecked.

    While most banks asked for a Pin, or blocked the card, after three to five transactions, three debit card providers - Barclays, the Co-operative Bank and TSB - allowed our 'thieves' to spend more than 200 through 10 consecutive transactions in just three hours. A real thief might well have continued.
    Which doesn't actually say what the official line of the banks is, just says some allowed more transactions than expected.
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 21st May 19, 10:51 AM
    • 688 Posts
    • 674 Thanks
    Takmon
    • #8
    • 21st May 19, 10:51 AM
    • #8
    • 21st May 19, 10:51 AM
    I think it would be a great idea if banks would allow you to set an alarm cap on spending via contactless, say perhaps 3 contactless transactions in one hour trigger a need to enter a pin. This would be particularly useful if you lost or had your card stolen and didn't immediately know. 30 transactions can soon empty your account. My bank, Nationwide, have told me this is not something they would consider.
    Originally posted by harttss3
    Well if you don't have your card lost or stolen then you won't have any issues. Plus if they do spend loads of money you will get it back from the bank due the contactless guarantee so you won't lose any money so i don't see the issue really.
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 21st May 19, 10:52 AM
    • 1,561 Posts
    • 1,135 Thanks
    18cc
    • #9
    • 21st May 19, 10:52 AM
    • #9
    • 21st May 19, 10:52 AM
    The article says that by September 2019 all banks how to implement entering pin after five contactless payments - at least that's the way I read it
    • 20SmthngSver
    • By 20SmthngSver 21st May 19, 10:53 AM
    • 239 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    20SmthngSver
    It says which ones did routinely asked for PIN, but also those who don't i.e. Barclays. It varies from bank to bank and they seem reluctant to tell you as they don't want people knowing in case it prompted a scammer to make more transactions.
    .....
    Home Deposit Savings: 38,650
    Pension: 11,700
    ..
    • 20SmthngSver
    • By 20SmthngSver 21st May 19, 10:56 AM
    • 239 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    20SmthngSver
    Well if you don't have your card lost or stolen then you won't have any issues. Plus if they do spend loads of money you will get it back from the bank due the contactless guarantee so you won't lose any money so i don't see the issue really.
    Originally posted by Takmon
    I think the issue being made is more the point of inconvenience which I completely understand. If you lose your card or it's stolen, it can be used by anyone to make some transactions which you will then have to prove wasn't you (if they are made before cancelling then banks are unlikely to refund it) and then try and get it back and be wihtout that money which that person may need or have low funds. At least without Contacltess, it cannot be used in shops and you've got time to call up and stop the card from being used online hopefully.
    .....
    Home Deposit Savings: 38,650
    Pension: 11,700
    ..
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 21st May 19, 11:07 AM
    • 688 Posts
    • 674 Thanks
    Takmon
    I think the issue being made is more the point of inconvenience which I completely understand. If you lose your card or it's stolen, it can be used by anyone to make some transactions which you will then have to prove wasn't you (if they are made before cancelling then banks are unlikely to refund it) and then try and get it back and be wihtout that money which that person may need or have low funds. At least without Contacltess, it cannot be used in shops and you've got time to call up and stop the card from being used online hopefully.
    Originally posted by 20SmthngSver
    If you read up on contactless they say:

    You are fully protected against fraud, so you get all of your money back and will never be left out of pocket.
    So you simply ring up and say those transactions were not you and they will refund you. You don't need to prove anything and even transactions before you report it lost/stolen are covered. I have never read of anyone being refused a contactless payment refund after reporting it as fraudulent.

    The banks want to promote this so they know they need to fully guarantee it.

    I've never lost any card or had one stolen ever, if your careful then it's very rare for for a card to be used fraudulent for contactless payments.
    If someone only has one account and no emergency fund and would struggle due to contactless fraud they would be better off spending the time sorting out their finances than trying to get non-contactless cards.
    • dr_adidas01
    • By dr_adidas01 21st May 19, 11:34 AM
    • 1,219 Posts
    • 578 Thanks
    dr_adidas01
    Not sure that's true as I've certainly done more than 3 in fact looking at my bank on one day i've done 15 contacless payments and not been challenged to enter my pin
    Time is a path from the past to the future and back again. The present is the crossroads of both.
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 21st May 19, 11:51 AM
    • 2,322 Posts
    • 5,203 Thanks
    Zanderman
    Not sure that's true as I've certainly done more than 3 in fact looking at my bank on one day i've done 15 contacless payments and not been challenged to enter my pin
    Originally posted by dr_adidas01
    Out of interest is that contactless with the card or with an app on a phone linked to the card?
    • suki1964
    • By suki1964 21st May 19, 12:03 PM
    • 12,100 Posts
    • 32,365 Thanks
    suki1964
    My bank is so strict on the use of its cards, I can't use it at the checkout in store then go straight away and use it in either the BWS or cigarette counter

    I have now linked my card onto my phone. If I. lose my phone, needs my thumb print to activate the card
    if you lend someone 20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it
    • 20SmthngSver
    • By 20SmthngSver 21st May 19, 2:17 PM
    • 239 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    20SmthngSver
    That's why I use a credit card, I never use a debit card. When I used to, especially online, it would often get blocked by Visa. Apart from Saturday on MusicMagpie, where both my Halifax and Santander credit cards were blocked, I've never had an issue. Also with over 100, it pays to use a credit card. I've had to raise a few disputes but only could as I used a credit card.

    Instead I bought an iPhone from HandTec and I tried my Halifax one, they wanted to confirm through OTP. I tried twice and I never got a text message. I did Santander and I got one straight away. I preferred it when you can to entered digits of a password, anyone can see a preview on a phone of a message from a OTP (that's if it works and if you have signal).

    I did have a wallet stolen in Barcelona about 10 years ago, but that was the only time. I've never lost a card.
    .....
    Home Deposit Savings: 38,650
    Pension: 11,700
    ..
    • Ergates
    • By Ergates 21st May 19, 9:51 PM
    • 476 Posts
    • 669 Thanks
    Ergates
    If you lose your card or it's stolen, it can be used by anyone to make some transactions which you will then have to prove wasn't you (if they are made before cancelling then banks are unlikely to refund it) and then try and get it back and be wihtout that money which that person may need or have low funds. At least without Contacltess, it cannot be used in shops and you've got time to call up and stop the card from being used online hopefully.
    Originally posted by 20SmthngSver
    The thing is: analysis of real-life data shows that contactless payments may up a minuscule fraction of fraudulent transactions. This is because contactless payments are unattractive to fraudsters because:
    1) They're low value (not much profit to be made selling something you bought in a shop for <= 30) and
    2) you have to be physically present to make them - most shops have CCTV and a contactless payment would show exactly when and where you were, which is way too much exposure to get goods worth 30.

    Fraudsters are *much* more attracted to using cards to make large online purchases.
    • Flobberchops
    • By Flobberchops 22nd May 19, 11:26 AM
    • 1,063 Posts
    • 973 Thanks
    Flobberchops
    In practice, any fraud committed with contactless payments tends to be in the order of a few hundred pounds and the banks are generally fairly happy to reimburse victims of this, as long as the story adds up.

    If you're worried about contactless you may be able to selectively turn contactless on and off in your banking app, or request a con-contactless card instead.
    Last edited by Flobberchops; 22-05-2019 at 10:56 PM.
    I work for a UK bank, but any comments made on this forum are solely my personal opinion. Caveat Emptor!
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 22nd May 19, 12:04 PM
    • 3,551 Posts
    • 4,060 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    The thing is: analysis of real-life data shows that contactless payments may up a minuscule fraction of fraudulent transactions. This is because contactless payments are unattractive to fraudsters because:
    1) They're low value (not much profit to be made selling something you bought in a shop for <= 30) and
    2) you have to be physically present to make them - most shops have CCTV and a contactless payment would show exactly when and where you were, which is way too much exposure to get goods worth 30.

    Fraudsters are *much* more attracted to using cards to make large online purchases.
    Originally posted by Ergates
    This is totally correct.

    The magstripe on the back of your card and the numbers printed on it each individually give you more fraud exposure than contactless does. The scaremongering about contactless is just that.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 22nd May 19, 1:55 PM
    • 1,561 Posts
    • 1,135 Thanks
    18cc
    I have requested and received none contactless versions of my NatWest and Barclays debit cards

    I have also scratched the CVV numbers off the back of them, partially because they then cannot be used online if lost but also because they then cannot be used to reset Internet banking logon details
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