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  • FIRST POST
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 28th Dec 18, 6:02 PM
    • 80Posts
    • 46Thanks
    David2Prit
    Npower - 2 years of hell
    • #1
    • 28th Dec 18, 6:02 PM
    Npower - 2 years of hell 28th Dec 18 at 6:02 PM
    Hello all,

    I just wanted to gather some advice regarding this, as I am currently thinking of taking it down the route of small claims court.

    So around about 2 years ago (23 months to be exact) we had to have a new meter installed at our flat due to the monitor on the then existing one breaking. No worries, that is absolutely fine, crack on.

    Slowly but surely we started to see a dramatic increase of the price of our bills. From when we were paying on average £40/50ish (one bed flat), started to become £100, sometimes £200 plus. Obviously to any rational human being that would flag as something being rather wrong, you would think, but not to N-power, oooohhh no, that seemed around about what we should be paying.

    So after around 6 months of arguing with N-power I got rather bored and went to the ombudsman, this wasn't being we now had a bill in excess of £1000 (If not more, can find that later if important but at work at moment). So now we sit and twiddle our thumbs expecting Ombudsman to come back with some fantastic news that it was all incorrect.... Na, not a chance! They ruled with N-power and stated that we were using the the amount of electric they said.

    So at this point me and my partner were rather deflated, but knew in our heart of hearts that this could not be right, it just couldn't be! We accepted a deal with them in which we were then paying £120 a month to clear the debt in order to take some of the strain off ourselves, and frankly get some breathing space as they started threatening legal action.
    So whilst still arguing and debating with N-power we were not getting anywhere (Why should we, we were in debt to them and the Ombudsman agreed with them), then one morning we got an email stating that our direct debit was going up and we would have to pay £350 a month
    Well, that was it, I ordered my partner to make a cup of tea whilst I sat in bed and started typing a review on N-power Facebook. I had the added advantage that I saw the head office (Or a N-power office) was based in Solihull, I thought this is brilliant, I'm going to be working near that for the next few months, so I shall tell them I will pay them a visit.
    Surely enough they took notice of this, and arranged for someone to test our meter.
    This gentleman who came to test our meter was nice, one of a kind, told me at that even though he wouldn't have the results right away, the meter was fast.

    Two weeks passed and we got a call from N-power, yes they confirmed, your meter is clocking up too fast! HOW FAST?!?! I asked barely able to contain my excitment..... 58.8% fast!!!?! WOOOOOOW.
    Now the gentleman from N-power was nice and said don't worry, give him a few weeks as he has to adjust every bill we've had since installation of this meter. No problem, that is absolutely fine thinking this is the end.

    Took our meter reading for that month, that'll be £52 please, yes that seems about correct!

    Was it the end??? No. They only went and messed up the figures and we were still left with £1200 to pay. So a little confused, I emailed back my figures based on 58.8% deduction, plus the excess we would have paid. Nothing.


    I have now gone back to Ombudsman but they are not sure they can take the case as it relates to a previously ruled on case. I asked them even with the knowledge that we were correct and N-power were wrong??? They said they would have to check with the powers that be. So they are currently doing that (To be fair they said it would take a few weeks due to Xmas and New Year).

    Now, that is a very light hearted post I have written whilst killing some time at work. I really cannot stress how stressful the whole process has been. Me and the partner have argued, tears, stress, literally wanting to kill N-power, sitting in the freezing cold not wanting to waste any energy and a magnitued of other things.

    My question is, if ombudsman rule they can't look into it again, would be have a claim for small claims court? More out of curiosity than anything, because I am not going to let this go without a fight.
    Thank you for any help, I'll be keeping a close eye on this , but for now should go do some work.
Page 1
    • welshmoneylover
    • By welshmoneylover 28th Dec 18, 8:10 PM
    • 2,847 Posts
    • 3,773 Thanks
    welshmoneylover
    • #2
    • 28th Dec 18, 8:10 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Dec 18, 8:10 PM
    Hello all,

    I just wanted to gather some advice regarding this, as I am currently thinking of taking it down the route of small claims court.

    So around about 2 years ago (23 months to be exact) we had to have a new meter installed at our flat due to the monitor on the then existing one breaking. No worries, that is absolutely fine, crack on.

    Slowly but surely we started to see a dramatic increase of the price of our bills. From when we were paying on average £40/50ish (one bed flat), started to become £100, sometimes £200 plus. Obviously to any rational human being that would flag as something being rather wrong, you would think, but not to N-power, oooohhh no, that seemed around about what we should be paying.

    So after around 6 months of arguing with N-power I got rather bored and went to the ombudsman, this wasn't being we now had a bill in excess of £1000 (If not more, can find that later if important but at work at moment). So now we sit and twiddle our thumbs expecting Ombudsman to come back with some fantastic news that it was all incorrect.... Na, not a chance! They ruled with N-power and stated that we were using the the amount of electric they said.

    So at this point me and my partner were rather deflated, but knew in our heart of hearts that this could not be right, it just couldn't be! We accepted a deal with them in which we were then paying £120 a month to clear the debt in order to take some of the strain off ourselves, and frankly get some breathing space as they started threatening legal action.
    So whilst still arguing and debating with N-power we were not getting anywhere (Why should we, we were in debt to them and the Ombudsman agreed with them), then one morning we got an email stating that our direct debit was going up and we would have to pay £350 a month
    Well, that was it, I ordered my partner to make a cup of tea whilst I sat in bed and started typing a review on N-power Facebook. I had the added advantage that I saw the head office (Or a N-power office) was based in Solihull, I thought this is brilliant, I'm going to be working near that for the next few months, so I shall tell them I will pay them a visit.
    Surely enough they took notice of this, and arranged for someone to test our meter.
    This gentleman who came to test our meter was nice, one of a kind, told me at that even though he wouldn't have the results right away, the meter was fast.

    Two weeks passed and we got a call from N-power, yes they confirmed, your meter is clocking up too fast! HOW FAST?!?! I asked barely able to contain my excitment..... 58.8% fast!!!?! WOOOOOOW.
    Now the gentleman from N-power was nice and said don't worry, give him a few weeks as he has to adjust every bill we've had since installation of this meter. No problem, that is absolutely fine thinking this is the end.

    Took our meter reading for that month, that'll be £52 please, yes that seems about correct!

    Was it the end??? No. They only went and messed up the figures and we were still left with £1200 to pay. So a little confused, I emailed back my figures based on 58.8% deduction, plus the excess we would have paid. Nothing.


    I have now gone back to Ombudsman but they are not sure they can take the case as it relates to a previously ruled on case. I asked them even with the knowledge that we were correct and N-power were wrong??? They said they would have to check with the powers that be. So they are currently doing that (To be fair they said it would take a few weeks due to Xmas and New Year).

    Now, that is a very light hearted post I have written whilst killing some time at work. I really cannot stress how stressful the whole process has been. Me and the partner have argued, tears, stress, literally wanting to kill N-power, sitting in the freezing cold not wanting to waste any energy and a magnitued of other things.

    My question is, if ombudsman rule they can't look into it again, would be have a claim for small claims court? More out of curiosity than anything, because I am not going to let this go without a fight.
    Thank you for any help, I'll be keeping a close eye on this , but for now should go do some work.
    Originally posted by David2Prit
    So, youíve had a check meter installed to prove itís clocking too fast?

    If so, have they now changed the meter for a new one?

    Could be that if it was too fast, you may have been seriously underpaying for some time. A one bed flat would easily be in excess off £100/month if itís all electric.
    Be happy, it's the greatest wealth
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 28th Dec 18, 9:20 PM
    • 27,887 Posts
    • 13,746 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #3
    • 28th Dec 18, 9:20 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Dec 18, 9:20 PM

    Could be that if it was too fast, you may have been seriously underpaying for some time. A one bed flat would easily be in excess off £100/month if itís all electric.
    Originally posted by welshmoneylover

    ??? Not understood.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 28th Dec 18, 9:45 PM
    • 27,887 Posts
    • 13,746 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #4
    • 28th Dec 18, 9:45 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Dec 18, 9:45 PM
    OP
    Unless I have missed something, I find it difficult to understand how a 58.8% over-reading has caused such debts in a period of 23 months.

    Note:By 58.8% over reading I take it that a true consumption of 100kWh would register as 158.8kWh

    It would help if you gave the consumption figures in kWh on your bills.


    If your bills were in the £40/£50 monthly region before the new meter was fitted, an over-reading of 58.8% would mean you were being charged £64/£84. so over 23 months it would entail an overpayment in the region of £800. Yet you are indicating you are being billed for sums vastly exceeding that sum.

    Could it be that the amount the meter over-read was variable and at times greatly exceeded 58.8%.?

    Personally I would take the Small Claims court path.
    Last edited by Cardew; 28-12-2018 at 9:48 PM.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 6:34 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    • #5
    • 29th Dec 18, 6:34 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Dec 18, 6:34 AM
    Hey!

    I'll pull off the full bills later, but yeah some of the bills were horrendous.

    To person asking about new meter, yeah new one installed, then got the correct (I assume) amount, or the amount I was happy to pay.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 7:21 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    • #6
    • 29th Dec 18, 7:21 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Dec 18, 7:21 AM
    Could be that if it was too fast, you may have been seriously underpaying for some time. A one bed flat would easily be in excess off £100/month if it’s all electric.
    As above, don't follow this.... N-Power have admitted that they have been overcharging by 58.8% for the whole period.

    Just logged into Npower account and it appears that they have removed all the old bills/statements when they have complied the new statements reflecting the change. Would I be able to get them back?

    Here is last month when the new meter was installed:

    Day
    0 Our estimate
    31 October 2018
    303 Our reading
    30 November 2018
    303 kWh at 14.790p £44.81

    Night
    0 Our estimate
    31 October 2018
    63 Our reading
    30 November 2018
    63 kWh at 7.550p £4.76

    I will obviously take some proper time out later and dig deeper into the bills and see if I can find anything.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 7:25 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    • #7
    • 29th Dec 18, 7:25 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Dec 18, 7:25 AM
    Forgot to mention, it is rather funny, that when I asked what compensation we could have I was told that they would waive £35 which would be the early cancellation fee. That made me chuckle.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 7:51 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    • #8
    • 29th Dec 18, 7:51 AM
    • #8
    • 29th Dec 18, 7:51 AM
    Could it be that the amount the meter over-read was variable and at times greatly exceeded 58.8%.?
    Let me find the email N-Power sent back and I'll come back to this!! Thank you.

    Obviously posted on here as not entirely clued up on the matter, and wanted some advice from people with a little more knowledge, so thank you.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 7:56 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    • #9
    • 29th Dec 18, 7:56 AM
    • #9
    • 29th Dec 18, 7:56 AM
    Further to my previous email, I would now like to provide you with an update around the result of your recent Meter Accuracy Test.
    Our analysis shows that your previous meter has recorded high usage since it was installed on 28.02.2017 therefore, your account will be amended for the full period the meter was installed.

    Start Date: 28.02.2017
    Start Read Day: 24353
    Start Read Night: 4275

    Meter Removed: 29.10.2018
    Removed Read Day: 38692
    Removed Read Night: 13555


    Based on the meter recording 58.82% Fast the removal readings have been amended to:

    Amended Read Day:33381 – Removing 5311 Day Units
    Amended Read Night: 10118 – Removing 3437 Night units

    The billing on your account has been reversed and the incorrect final meter readings have now been removed. The removal readings have now been amended as outlined above and we have billed the account to the installation readings from your new meter.
    The balance on your account detailed within your last bill dated 14.09.2018 was £1,926.72 debit, which was billed to estimated meter readings from 13.09.2018. The new balance on your account after adding the new amended removal readings is now £1,151.90 debit. Please allow 3-5 working days to receive your new statement within your online account facility.
    Based on these revised figures, I have calculated that moving forward, you will use approximately 5,400 kWh Day units and approximately 3,504 kWh Night units over the next 12 months. On your current tariff Online Fixed energy March 2019, this works out at approximately £1,452.20 per annum or around £121.00 per month.
    Please note that this figure is based on the usage on your current tariff over the next 12 months however, your tariff actually expires at the end of March 2019 and at that point this will naturally revert to our Standard tariff, should a new tariff not be chosen by that point.
    The next time we are due to complete a review of your monthly payment is on 3 December 2018 and this will be shown on your new statement at the time. If you would like a repayment plan for your outstanding balance, please contact me and I will review this for you.
    Email I had back from N-power. Doesn't mention anything regarding variable.
    • brianposter
    • By brianposter 29th Dec 18, 8:37 AM
    • 413 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    brianposter
    Npowers account of events does not seem to be consistent with your account, although at first sight the discrepancy appears to be in your favour. You describe steadily rising bills, they say that there was a constant error.
    Work out your correct consumption as best you can some other way - use the bills from before the new meter was installed, insist that npower provide copies of your unamended bills, or wait until you have some bills from the new meter.
    Start talking in kwh as pounds just confuse everything.
    Having done all that tell nPower that you are going to court to recover whatever they owe you. (You will probably have to reclaim for the months for which you have already paid, and presumably you can ask to court to direct that outstanding bills be calculated on the same basis.)


    An ombudsman that will not correct their own errors is just a joke. Make a formal complaint and send a copy to your MP.
    Last edited by brianposter; 29-12-2018 at 8:46 AM.
  • archived user
    Email I had back from N-power. Doesn't mention anything regarding variable.
    Originally posted by David2Prit
    How could anyone prove that a meter was 'variable'? I assume that the test is based on a given period of time against units recorded on both meters. The point made by Npower in its e-mail is that at the end of a fix, they will transfer you to their SVT unless you take action. This, in turn, will lead to a higher charge for units used.

    The amount of debt is still very high: have you been paying anything on account? Has Npower been billing you - albeit, using inflated meter readings?
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 9:36 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    Work out your correct consumption as best you can some other way - use the bills from before the new meter was installed, insist that npower provide copies of your unamended bills, or wait until you have some bills from the new meter.
    Yeah I am going request the unamended bills, but also use the new bills to show the comparison.

    The amount of debt is still very high: have you been paying anything on account? Has Npower been billing you - albeit, using inflated meter readings?
    Between Dec 18 - April 18 we were paying £157 a month. £100 towards the actual cost of electricty, and £57 towards servicing the debt. They set that as a fixed amount at that point and me and my partner agreed because we just wanted some breathing space. Fortuntately I have emails between me and my partner stating we just need some space whilst we try figuring out what is going on.
    From then we were paying £99 (at N-power say so) until around June this year when for some reason the monthly direct debit dropped to £74 (N-Power say so...).
    Then in September (I believe) they stated it would increase to £344 a month, that is when I really went at it. They agreed to keep payment at £74 until meter had been checked, and here we are. Still paying the £74 a month, as I would rather stay ahead than behind.

    In my eyes I think we have overpayed massively and that has not been taken into account, maybe it has, but it doesn't seem to have if we still owe £1000+, just doesn't seem right.

    I really appreciate everyones advice! as said, not an expert in the slightest. I just get a bill and pay usually (Roughly aware of how much it should be).
    Last edited by David2Prit; 29-12-2018 at 9:38 AM.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 9:39 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    Before Dec 18, should mention that we were voluntarily paying £100 a month to try and keep up.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 3:13 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    Does anyone know if I can request all records N-power hold of conversations, notes on account, bills etc via freedom of information request? Is that possible?
    • B13blues
    • By B13blues 29th Dec 18, 3:13 PM
    • 79 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    B13blues
    As above, don't follow this.... N-Power have admitted that they have been overcharging by 58.8% for the whole period.

    Just logged into Npower account and it appears that they have removed all the old bills/statements when they have complied the new statements reflecting the change. Would I be able to get them back?

    Here is last month when the new meter was installed:

    Day
    0 Our estimate
    31 October 2018
    303 Our reading
    30 November 2018
    303 kWh at 14.790p £44.81

    Night
    0 Our estimate
    31 October 2018
    63 Our reading
    30 November 2018
    63 kWh at 7.550p £4.76

    I will obviously take some proper time out later and dig deeper into the bills and see if I can find anything.
    Originally posted by David2Prit

    They removed a load of readings off my account, they've got history of this. Imagine what'd happen to you if you did that yet they can get away with it. Luckily I took photos of mine. Hope you can take them to the cleaners to be honest, good luck.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 3:23 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    They removed a load of readings off my account, they've got history of this. Imagine what'd happen to you if you did that yet they can get away with it. Luckily I took photos of mine. Hope you can take them to the cleaners to be honest, good luck.
    Originally posted by B13blues
    Thank you! That's the aim. Well, to be honest, my aim is to clear the account in full and let us leave as we can't because of this stupid debt.
    • brianposter
    • By brianposter 29th Dec 18, 4:04 PM
    • 413 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    brianposter
    What about your bills for 2016 or 2015 ? At a minimum you must be able to discover what you paid.
    And if there are not too many estimated bills you should be able to calculate your consumption in kwh.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 6:11 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    What about your bills for 2016 or 2015 ? At a minimum you must be able to discover what you paid.
    And if there are not too many estimated bills you should be able to calculate your consumption in kwh.
    Originally posted by brianposter
    June 16 when moved in to flat
    £38 - July
    £41 - August
    £37 - September
    £44 - October
    £23- Nov (Holiday for 3 weeks)
    £52 - Dec

    Thatís just going on payments as I can see that at moment, but as said, bills seem to have disappeared from online account.
    • David2Prit
    • By David2Prit 29th Dec 18, 7:04 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    David2Prit
    UPDATE - I’ve submitted a SAR
    • brianposter
    • By brianposter 29th Dec 18, 9:18 PM
    • 413 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    brianposter
    June 16 when moved in to flat
    £38 - July
    £41 - August
    £37 - September
    £44 - October
    £23- Nov (Holiday for 3 weeks)
    £52 - Dec

    Thatís just going on payments as I can see that at moment, but as said, bills seem to have disappeared from online account.
    Originally posted by David2Prit
    And the corresponding consumption - real, not estimated ?
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