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    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 9:58 AM
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    Rscott93
    Bankruptcy order ignored by CEL resulting in CCJ
    • #1
    • 4th Feb 18, 9:58 AM
    Bankruptcy order ignored by CEL resulting in CCJ 4th Feb 18 at 9:58 AM
    **APOLOGIES, TITLE SHOULD STATE "PPC" NOT "CEL"**

    Hi guys.

    I received a fine in the post from a private parking company way back in 2016. Anyway, I went bankrupt in February 2017, having not responded to any of the threatening letters I had received, I advised the Official Receiver about this debt as I had received a letter regarding a county court claim for this fine. The Official Receiver wrote to Civil Enforcement LTD advising them of the bankruptcy order and that all correspondence etc was to go to them now. Anyway fast forward around 2 weeks I receive a CCJ in the post. Me being a bit naive I ignored this (thinking that the OR would be taking care of this). Anyway, I have checked my credit file in January 2018 as I am excited to be at the end of my bankruptcy order and I see an active CCJ for this fine on my credit file. I have contacted my OR who it turns out is someone different now as the previous guy has left, she has confirmed to me in writing that this matter should have been dealt with, that the debt had been included in my bankruptcy. I found Civil Enforcement LTD address online and wrote then a very strongly worded letter (see below) on the 16th January, this was delivered and signed for the next day. I contacted the County Court about this and they emailed me saying they do not have the training to remove this CCJ and that I should contact the creditor (which I have). My OR also says they do not directly deal with the county court business centre and that I have to sort it myself with Civil Enforcement LTD. Anyway, here is the letter:

    I am writing to you today with regards to a PCN issued to myself on 22/04/2016. A bankruptcy order was made against me on 28/02/2017. I have enclosed documentation to confirm this. I contacted yourselves and notified you of this by phone soon after to which I was advised to send proof of this to your office in Horton House, Liverpool. I sent this to you on 21/03/2017. It was to my surprise that I received another letter from you dated 07/04/2017 advising you had issued this claim to the County Court Business Centre, therefore clearly ignoring my previous correspondence to you.
    At this point I sought advice from my insolvency practitioner who informed me they would write to you themselves confirming the fact that I had indeed been declared bankrupt and that the debt should have been included in this, as I am sure you are very well aware.
    This brings me to the point of the County Court Judgement which was made against me on 08/05/2017. I have sought further advice regarding this matter from my solicitor, my insolvency practitioner and the County Court Business Centre who have all informed me that as you were informed of my bankruptcy before the county court claim was issued, it should have never been referred to them and the debt should have been settled within the bankruptcy order.
    The purpose of this letter is to inform you of all the circumstances surrounding this mistake you have made and to give you the opportunity to make amends. You are being advised to amend your records and show this debt as being settled. You are also being advised to inform the County Court Business Centre of this mistake and ensure that this CCJ is set aside and removed from any records.
    If I have not received confirmation of this within 28 days of this letter being sent, I will be referring this case to my solicitor. You may contact me by letter or email.


    This was received on the 17th January and whilst 28 days have not yet passed, I am a bit worried they will just ignore this letter. I need this CCJ removed from my credit file as I have obtained an offer of employment abroad for a foreign exchange company who have stated this offer will not stand if I can not get it removed. I am due to start on March 20th.

    Given the fact that I have proof that the claimant was advised about my bankruptcy order before the CCJ was issued, what else can I do to get this sorted if they ignore my letter ?

    I appreciate this has been a long winded first post, I am really just at my wits end with this now.

    I also did try and start a thread for this however I cannot find the start thread button.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Rscott93; 04-02-2018 at 10:11 AM.
Page 1
    • fermi
    • By fermi 4th Feb 18, 10:13 AM
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    fermi
    • #2
    • 4th Feb 18, 10:13 AM
    • #2
    • 4th Feb 18, 10:13 AM
    For now, I'm going to move this thread to Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking. board.

    Normally duplicate threads are not good, but this has such a cross over in dealing with the BR side, and the parking ticket company aspect, that I'll do it for now. Maybe moving back at a future time.
    Last edited by fermi; 04-02-2018 at 10:18 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

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    • fermi
    • By fermi 4th Feb 18, 10:16 AM
    • 39,460 Posts
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    fermi
    • #3
    • 4th Feb 18, 10:16 AM
    • #3
    • 4th Feb 18, 10:16 AM
    I would note that the Official Receiver will not get involved in removing or setting this aside. It is sadly up to you.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

    Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB

    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 4th Feb 18, 10:58 AM
    • 9,209 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #4
    • 4th Feb 18, 10:58 AM
    • #4
    • 4th Feb 18, 10:58 AM
    Your letter to the PPC was, imo, too polite. I would employ more assertive language.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 11:38 AM
    • 28 Posts
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    Rscott93
    • #5
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:38 AM
    • #5
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:38 AM
    Your letter to the PPC was, imo, too polite. I would employ more assertive language.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    I thought it was strongly worded to be honest. I am thinking of seeing CAB about this ans possibly getting a more professional, legal letter written by a legal rep. Would this be a good route to go down?
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 4th Feb 18, 11:44 AM
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    forgotmyname
    • #6
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:44 AM
    • #6
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:44 AM
    The company offering the job wont employ you with a CCJ but will will a recent bankruptcy?

    What happened to the court paperwork?

    I think you need to apply and pay a setaside and start the process over which will take time. But if it has been to court and they won because you didnt turn up then dont expect them to do anything but keep asking for the money.

    Go back to court and show them the bankruptcy papers. It wont be sorted by a letter now.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 4th Feb 18, 11:47 AM
    • 9,209 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #7
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:47 AM
    • #7
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:47 AM
    I have very little faith in CAB, you would probably do better by doing your own research on google or posting on one of the money boards on MSE imo. This is no longer a parking matter.
    Last edited by The Deep; 04-02-2018 at 11:49 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 4th Feb 18, 11:47 AM
    • 2,314 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:47 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:47 AM
    As @forgotmyname says, why not apply for a set aside @ 255 and use the information on here for all CEL CCJ's. The SA hearing will remove it {more than likely} and you may even get the 255 back. They don't fight set-asides or apply for rehearings.

    Use court and not words.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • fermi
    • By fermi 4th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
    • 39,460 Posts
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    fermi
    • #9
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
    • #9
    • 4th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
    The company offering the job wont employ you with a CCJ but will will a recent bankruptcy?
    Originally posted by forgotmyname
    Some companies on debt issues tend to just look at whether the issue is settled, rather than the severity of it. So a discharged bankruptcy might be ok, but an unsettled recent CCJ might not be.

    Makes some sense. Or may seem odd to you. Many think/have policy that way though.

    Might be worth a letter spelling out the legality and disputed nature of the CCJ to the employer though. Pointing out that quite clearly the CCJ should never have been sought, if CEL had been honest or competent, and is due to an issue that should have been settled by the BR. So they should step outside policy, and look at this on it's merits/
    Last edited by fermi; 04-02-2018 at 11:55 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

    Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB

    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 12:05 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Rscott93
    The company offering the job wont employ you with a CCJ but will will a recent bankruptcy?

    What happened to the court paperwork?

    I think you need to apply and pay a setaside and start the process over which will take time. But if it has been to court and they won because you didnt turn up then dont expect them to do anything but keep asking for the money.

    Go back to court and show them the bankruptcy papers. It wont be sorted by a letter now.
    Originally posted by forgotmyname
    With regards to having it set aside, what route can I go down / what reason shall I use? Or are the details I have already provided enough reason for them to do it, as I have documentation from the OR proving this should have been included in my BR.

    Also, I am currently not working and claiming Universal Credit, so would I be entitled to any financial help ?
    I did already show the CCBC the bankruptcy papers, they said they can not do anything and that the claimant has to update their record which is the reason I wrote to CE LTD. The whole thing has my mind all over the place. I had to reject the move abroad 12 months ago due to filing for bankruptcy, I will be devastated if I have to reject it again due to this. The past 12 months have been purely focused on making this move possible again.
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 12:07 PM
    • 28 Posts
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    Rscott93
    I have very little faith in CAB, you would probably do better by doing your own research on google or posting on one of the money boards on MSE imo. This is no longer a parking matter.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    I have done loads of research, it seems there aren't clear guidelines set out for this situation . I did ppost this in the CCJ & Bankruptcy forum however a moderator thought it would be best suited to this forum and moved it
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 12:13 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Rscott93
    As @forgotmyname says, why not apply for a set aside @ 255 and use the information on here for all CEL CCJ's. The SA hearing will remove it {more than likely} and you may even get the 255 back. They don't fight set-asides or apply for rehearings.

    Use court and not words.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    So if I was to get this set aside, could there be a possibility of me having the PPC cancel the fine if successfully defended / appealed? I stayed around 30 minutes over a 2 hour time in a KFC car park, ignored (and disposed of) all correspondence as I was wrongly advised my numerous people who did not realise the laws regarding PPC had changed. The only letters I have kept are:

    Wright & Hassal formal letter of claim 12/12/2016
    Civil Enforcement LTD particulars of claim stating the issue has been issued at the CCBC 07/04/2017
    CCBC claim form 07/04/2017
    Judgement in default from CCBC 08/05/2017
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 12:24 PM
    • 28 Posts
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    Rscott93
    I also forgot to mention in the OP, the letter was sent via recorded signed for delivery, which was signed for the very next day so I have proof of receipt.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Feb 18, 5:31 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    I am currently not working and claiming Universal Credit, so would I be entitled to any financial help ?
    Yes it sounds like it, as you are on that benefit (lack of income/savings should mean you are eligible):

    https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees

    So you need form N244 (to apply to the court to set aside the CCJ) and to apply for fee remission.

    The NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum, has a section in the second post about how to set aside this trash. Show us your draft Witness Statement that you come up with, to accompany your N244.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 4th Feb 18, 6:39 PM
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    debt doctor
    Hi,

    Did you respond to the court forms before you got the CCJ?

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 8:53 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Rscott93
    Yes it sounds like it, as you are on that benefit (lack of income/savings should mean you are eligible):

    So you need form N244 (to apply to the court to set aside the CCJ) and to apply for fee remission.

    The NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum, has a section in the second post about how to set aside this trash. Show us your draft Witness Statement that you come up with, to accompany your N244.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Really pleased I came across this forum earlier, seems like it is a great community full with helpful people. With regards to the N244, would I need to pay it then apply for some fees back? Or would the help with court fees form cover it all?
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 8:55 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Rscott93
    Hi,

    Did you respond to the court forms before you got the CCJ?

    DD
    Originally posted by debt doctor
    Hi debt doctor. No I did not reply to anything, I ignored all correspondence until I was advised about the case going to the county court, that is when I advised my OR and they wrote to CE LTD advising them of my bankruptcy. I DID LOG IN to put in a defence (I think I only got as far as extending it so the date was 28 days instead of 14, then didn't write a defence).
    The only direct correspondence I have given is the letter I have written and sent them last month.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Feb 18, 8:57 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Really pleased I came across this forum earlier, seems like it is a great community full with helpful people. With regards to the N244, would I need to pay it then apply for some fees back? Or would the help with court fees form cover it all?
    Originally posted by Rscott93
    Use the link I gave you, it explains your options. I don't think you have to pay up front.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 9:12 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Rscott93
    Use the link I gave you, it explains your options. I don't think you have to pay up front.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Awesome, just with regards to getting it set aside, what would I use as the reason?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Feb 18, 9:14 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The one you explained to us.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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