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    • graffias
    • By graffias 22nd Nov 17, 7:59 PM
    • 36Posts
    • 25Thanks
    graffias
    Transfer Pension To Bitcoin
    • #1
    • 22nd Nov 17, 7:59 PM
    Transfer Pension To Bitcoin 22nd Nov 17 at 7:59 PM
    Is there ANY way to withdraw my whole defined contribution pension plan (from a company I used to work for many years back) - it is worth about 24,000 in long term equities (split between UK, Global, and Emerging Market) - and put the whole lot into Bitcoin? I am age 51 and virtually certain that Bitcoin will by end of 2019 be worth over 100,000 per coin. With the central bank printing presses running overtime as at no time in history, and them buying up stocks to inflate prices to a massive bubble again unlike any ever seen before - it has to be INSANITY to have 24,000 invested in the stock market for the next few years whilst Bitcoin is on the cusp of becoming a global monetary store of value and currency. By contrast the pensions bubble is going to completely explode.

    I don't want to lose out on 400,000GBP that this will be worth in 2019 - so is there any way to save this money - how do I get the money out of the pension scheme, where I know its going to be worth virtually nothing by the time I retire if I don't take action ?

    Any advice from pension experts much appreciated - thank you.
Page 1
    • robber2
    • By robber2 22nd Nov 17, 8:15 PM
    • 345 Posts
    • 286 Thanks
    robber2
    • #2
    • 22nd Nov 17, 8:15 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Nov 17, 8:15 PM
    Early drawing of your pension due to a terminal illness is just about the only legal way that won't lose you most if not all of your 24k !!

    Problem is you won't then be around to enjoy the 400k :-)

    Rob
    • stoozie1
    • By stoozie1 22nd Nov 17, 8:31 PM
    • 549 Posts
    • 485 Thanks
    stoozie1
    • #3
    • 22nd Nov 17, 8:31 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Nov 17, 8:31 PM
    1. Please don't do this.

    2. How old are you and what other pension provision do you have.

    3. How much annual income do you need in retirement and from what age?

    4. See point 1
    • redux
    • By redux 22nd Nov 17, 8:36 PM
    • 18,118 Posts
    • 23,930 Thanks
    redux
    • #4
    • 22nd Nov 17, 8:36 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Nov 17, 8:36 PM
    I doubt that Bitcoin is a permissible holding in a pension scheme.

    Bitcoin has been volatile in the past, and could go down, like other infamous speculatory booms did.
    • Aegis
    • By Aegis 22nd Nov 17, 9:21 PM
    • 4,895 Posts
    • 3,109 Thanks
    Aegis
    • #5
    • 22nd Nov 17, 9:21 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Nov 17, 9:21 PM
    Is there ANY way to withdraw my whole defined contribution pension plan (from a company I used to work for many years back) - it is worth about 24,000 in long term equities (split between UK, Global, and Emerging Market) - and put the whole lot into Bitcoin? I am age 51 and virtually certain that Bitcoin will by end of 2019 be worth over 100,000 per coin.
    Originally posted by graffias
    Leaving aside the fact that withdrawing from your pension is a way to waste a large chunk (if not all) of the tax relief you got on the contributions, where on earth does this certainty come from? By my reckoning, there's no reason for Bitcoin to be worth even 1,000 per coin, so why would you expect it to be worth 100,000? There are already numerous rivals to Bitcoin, with more being launched all the time, and eventually people are going to realise that something with competition created so easily is basically worthless without the backing of an economy.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    Anything I say on the forum is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as personal financial advice. It is vitally important to do your own research before acting on information gathered from any users on this forum.
    • msallen
    • By msallen 22nd Nov 17, 9:57 PM
    • 812 Posts
    • 894 Thanks
    msallen
    • #6
    • 22nd Nov 17, 9:57 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Nov 17, 9:57 PM
    Is there ANY way to withdraw my whole defined contribution pension plan (from a company I used to work for many years back) - it is worth about 24,000 in long term equities (split between UK, Global, and Emerging Market) - and put the whole lot into Bitcoin? I am age 51 and virtually certain that Bitcoin will by end of 2019 be worth over 100,000 per coin. With the central bank printing presses running overtime as at no time in history, and them buying up stocks to inflate prices to a massive bubble again unlike any ever seen before - it has to be INSANITY to have 24,000 invested in the stock market for the next few years whilst Bitcoin is on the cusp of becoming a global monetary store of value and currency. By contrast the pensions bubble is going to completely explode.

    I don't want to lose out on 400,000GBP that this will be worth in 2019 - so is there any way to save this money - how do I get the money out of the pension scheme, where I know its going to be worth virtually nothing by the time I retire if I don't take action ?

    Any advice from pension experts much appreciated - thank you.
    Originally posted by graffias
    I hope this is just a poor attempt at trolling. If not you need to ask for your medication to be increased.
    • Sarastro
    • By Sarastro 22nd Nov 17, 10:07 PM
    • 395 Posts
    • 340 Thanks
    Sarastro
    • #7
    • 22nd Nov 17, 10:07 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Nov 17, 10:07 PM
    Seriously, it's an insane idea. If you go ahead, I invite you back in 2019 to tell us how it went.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 22nd Nov 17, 10:19 PM
    • 92,660 Posts
    • 59,985 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #8
    • 22nd Nov 17, 10:19 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Nov 17, 10:19 PM
    and put the whole lot into Bitcoin?
    Ok. Very funny. However, you should really have added a smiley as people may think you are serious.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 23rd Nov 17, 9:13 AM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 6,453 Thanks
    Malthusian
    • #9
    • 23rd Nov 17, 9:13 AM
    • #9
    • 23rd Nov 17, 9:13 AM
    Is there ANY way to withdraw my whole defined contribution pension plan (from a company I used to work for many years back) - it is worth about 24,000 in long term equities (split between UK, Global, and Emerging Market) - and put the whole lot into Bitcoin?
    Originally posted by graffias
    Yes it is.

    No, I won't make myself partially responsible for you losing your shirt by telling you how. If you're enough of a genius to predict with certainty the price of a given cryptocurrency in two years' time, then you can easily work it out for yourself.
    • IanSt
    • By IanSt 23rd Nov 17, 11:28 AM
    • 260 Posts
    • 194 Thanks
    IanSt
    There are already numerous rivals to Bitcoin, with more being launched all the time, and eventually people are going to realise that something with competition created so easily is basically worthless without the backing of an economy.
    Originally posted by Aegis
    I also wonder how many hackers are currently looking to hack into the technology and if quantum computers ever do really arrive then existing cryptocurrencies are in definite trouble.
    • ermine
    • By ermine 23rd Nov 17, 12:18 PM
    • 661 Posts
    • 985 Thanks
    ermine
    Is there ANY way to withdraw my whole defined contribution pension plan (from a company I used to work for many years back) - it is worth about 24,000 in long term equities (split between UK, Global, and Emerging Market) - and put the whole lot into Bitcoin? I am age 51 and virtually certain that Bitcoin will by end of 2019 be worth over 100,000 per coin. [.. blather blather ...] By contrast the pensions bubble is going to completely explode.

    I don't want to lose out on 400,000GBP that this will be worth in 2019 - so is there any way to save this money - how do I get the money out of the pension scheme, where I know its going to be worth virtually nothing by the time I retire if I don't take action ?
    Originally posted by graffias
    IG Index leveraged bitcoin trading is your friend. Go on, give us all a laugh. Put your money where your mouth is, mate.
    • ex-pat scot
    • By ex-pat scot 23rd Nov 17, 12:44 PM
    • 252 Posts
    • 299 Thanks
    ex-pat scot
    Is there ANY way to withdraw my whole defined contribution pension plan (from a company I used to work for many years back) - it is worth about 24,000 in long term equities (split between UK, Global, and Emerging Market) - and put the whole lot into Bitcoin? I am age 51 and virtually certain that Bitcoin will by end of 2019 be worth over 100,000 per coin. With the central bank printing presses running overtime as at no time in history, and them buying up stocks to inflate prices to a massive bubble again unlike any ever seen before - it has to be INSANITY to have 24,000 invested in the stock market for the next few years whilst Bitcoin is on the cusp of becoming a global monetary store of value and currency. By contrast the pensions bubble is going to completely explode.

    I don't want to lose out on 400,000GBP that this will be worth in 2019 - so is there any way to save this money - how do I get the money out of the pension scheme, where I know its going to be worth virtually nothing by the time I retire if I don't take action ?

    Any advice from pension experts much appreciated - thank you.
    Originally posted by graffias
    An even better idea!
    Take it all out.
    Go to local casino


    Put it all on Red.
    Win
    Repeat another three times.
    Bingo - 384,000 instantly! No need to wait until 2019!


    You will end up with a 55% penalty tax charge (plus fines & interest?) on the early withdrawal of the capital from your pension, but surely with 384,000 in your pocket you can then afford to "pay the (tax)man and damn his impudence". That's small change now to you, my wealthy friend.


    (c) Ex Pat Scot.


    You're welcome.




    {edit} PS forgot to mention: my solution is more sensible and lower risk than yours.
    • graffias
    • By graffias 23rd Nov 17, 2:12 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    graffias
    OK joking aside - you've all had a good laugh - if you are professional then please explain to me what the basic rules are concerning taking out all the money from your pension scheme. I would be interested to know how this works, even though it might prove to be totally infeasible - I would like to know exactly what happens and how they treat it - please no more jokes/sarcasm thank you! How many people have actually done this - and is it extremely rare? And what kind of reasons did they have?

    I do not wish to debate the merits of cryptocurrencies - however you would no doubt be interested to know I have made over 300% interest over the past 7 months for my crypto investment : 85% Bitcoin + 15% other currencies, and I can recover my principal at any time 24/7, within a few minutes - however I am a RAGING bull on this.

    Remember scared money doesn't make money!

    When you invest in something you totally understand and totally believe in that's when you get someplace! This is the only form of financial system I have EVER believed in - decentralized, open ledger, mathematically secured - ie we trust in mathematics - not bankers or government (who have let us down).

    Thanking you
    'When I said I wanted to be a comedian everyone laughed - they're not laughing now'
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 23rd Nov 17, 2:18 PM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 6,453 Thanks
    Malthusian
    You will end up with a 55% penalty tax charge (plus fines & interest?) on the early withdrawal of the capital from your pension...
    Originally posted by ex-pat scot
    Although you weren't actually suggesting he do it, I still need to correct the persistent misunderstanding that under-55s can get their money out of a pension scheme if they're willing to pay 55%. This misunderstanding fuels the pension liberation scams because some people are "desperate" enough to think that's a good deal. (Or if they're enough of an idiot to think that a near-halving of their pension fund is fine because it'll increase by 16x by 2019.)

    Under-55s cannot get their money out of a pension scheme (except for ill health, protected scheme age, etc). This is because not only is there a 55% "unauthorised payment charge" on the member, but also a scheme sanction charge on the scheme, and the possibility of having the scheme de-registered by HMRC if they make a habit of allowing unauthorised payments, which means a 40% charge on all the schemes' assets. Meaning certain ruin for any other members and the trustees.

    This means that no pension scheme will allow under-55s to take their money out, period, unless they are run by scammers. And scammers will of course take 100% of your pension and leave you with the tax bill.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 23rd Nov 17, 2:29 PM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 6,453 Thanks
    Malthusian
    OK joking aside - you've all had a good laugh - if you are professional then please explain to me what the basic rules are concerning taking out all the money from your pension scheme. I would be interested to know how this works, even though it might prove to be totally infeasible - I would like to know exactly what happens and how they treat it - please no more jokes/sarcasm thank you!
    Originally posted by graffias
    I'll say it again, if you're clever enough to be able to predict the price of a cryptocurrency two years from now with certainty, you're clever enough to do some Googling, read through the HMRC Pension Tax Manual and work this out for yourself.

    I do not wish to debate the merits of cryptocurrencies - however you would no doubt be interested to know I have made over 300% interest over the past 7 months for my crypto investment


    If you want me to be professional then I'll need to charge my professional rates.
    • HappyHarry
    • By HappyHarry 23rd Nov 17, 3:26 PM
    • 604 Posts
    • 880 Thanks
    HappyHarry
    OK joking aside - you've all had a good laugh - if you are professional then please explain to me what the basic rules are concerning taking out all the money from your pension scheme.
    Originally posted by graffias
    I'm a professional.

    Basic rules - legal:
    (i) You're 51. Unless you are terminally ill, or have protected early retirement age, you can not take money out of your pension scheme. It would be illegal.

    I am age 51 and virtually certain that Bitcoin will by end of 2019 be worth over 100,000 per coin. With the central bank printing presses running overtime as at no time in history, and them buying up stocks to inflate prices to a massive bubble again unlike any ever seen before - it has to be INSANITY to have 24,000 invested in the stock market for the next few years whilst Bitcoin is on the cusp of becoming a global monetary store of value and currency. By contrast the pensions bubble is going to completely explode.
    Originally posted by graffias
    Basic rules - common sense:
    (i) Taking money out of a pension is a serious undertaking and one that should only be done with careful consideration and full understanding of risks involved. If you are invested in a pension fund comprising of shares in major global companies, and you think that the risk of this fund is far greater than the risk of a bitcoin investment, then you do not have a full understanding of the risks involved. Hence, common sense rule (i) says you shouldn't do it.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser. Any comments I make here are intended for information / discussion only. Nothing I post here should be construed as advice. If you are looking for individual financial advice, please contact a local Independent Financial Adviser.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 23rd Nov 17, 3:30 PM
    • 92,660 Posts
    • 59,985 Thanks
    dunstonh
    if you are professional then please explain to me what the basic rules are concerning taking out all the money from your pension scheme
    Really easy. Hopefully, you will be able to understand this.

    you can't at your age.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 23rd Nov 17, 4:54 PM
    • 3,340 Posts
    • 4,092 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    whilst Bitcoin is on the cusp of becoming a global monetary store of value and currency. By contrast the pensions bubble is going to completely explode.
    Originally posted by graffias
    haha, you know that Bitcoin is pretty much limited to 7 transactions per second MAX in its current format?

    Paypal processes 193 per second

    VISA processes 1,667 per second on average

    a global current limited to 7 transactions per second!

    now don't get me wrong, Bitcoin is interesting and has some legs, but lets not get carried away just yet!
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 23rd Nov 17, 4:57 PM
    • 268 Posts
    • 379 Thanks
    jennyjj
    Is there ANY way to withdraw my whole defined contribution pension plan - and put the whole lot into Bitcoin?
    Originally posted by graffias
    NOTE: I'm in no way qualified to professionally advise. I'm not suggesting that what you propose is sensible or reasonable. Indeed, I think it's an insane idea.

    Actually, it might be possible and legal.

    Anyhow, this is how I think you could do it:-

    Transfer your existing pension across into a Hargreaves Lansdown SIPP
    Within that SIPP, invest in a Bitcoin tracker fund such as http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/x/xbt-provider-ab-bitcoin-tracker-eur

    Then pray to the imaginary friend of your choosing.

    Disclaimer: I'm not endorsing HL, or that tracker, but I confess to having a modest bitcoin investment of this type.
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 23rd Nov 17, 5:01 PM
    • 268 Posts
    • 379 Thanks
    jennyjj
    I have made over 300% interest over the past 7 months for my crypto investment : 85% Bitcoin + 15% other currencies
    Originally posted by graffias
    Nope. Bitcoin doesn't pay interest. Well done if you made a capital gain.
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