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    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 9:58 AM
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    Rscott93
    Bankruptcy order ignored by CEL resulting in CCJ
    • #1
    • 4th Feb 18, 9:58 AM
    Bankruptcy order ignored by CEL resulting in CCJ 4th Feb 18 at 9:58 AM
    **APOLOGIES, TITLE SHOULD STATE "PPC" NOT "CEL"**

    Hi guys.

    I received a fine in the post from a private parking company way back in 2016. Anyway, I went bankrupt in February 2017, having not responded to any of the threatening letters I had received, I advised the Official Receiver about this debt as I had received a letter regarding a county court claim for this fine. The Official Receiver wrote to Civil Enforcement LTD advising them of the bankruptcy order and that all correspondence etc was to go to them now. Anyway fast forward around 2 weeks I receive a CCJ in the post. Me being a bit naive I ignored this (thinking that the OR would be taking care of this). Anyway, I have checked my credit file in January 2018 as I am excited to be at the end of my bankruptcy order and I see an active CCJ for this fine on my credit file. I have contacted my OR who it turns out is someone different now as the previous guy has left, she has confirmed to me in writing that this matter should have been dealt with, that the debt had been included in my bankruptcy. I found Civil Enforcement LTD address online and wrote then a very strongly worded letter (see below) on the 16th January, this was delivered and signed for the next day. I contacted the County Court about this and they emailed me saying they do not have the training to remove this CCJ and that I should contact the creditor (which I have). My OR also says they do not directly deal with the county court business centre and that I have to sort it myself with Civil Enforcement LTD. Anyway, here is the letter:

    I am writing to you today with regards to a PCN issued to myself on 22/04/2016. A bankruptcy order was made against me on 28/02/2017. I have enclosed documentation to confirm this. I contacted yourselves and notified you of this by phone soon after to which I was advised to send proof of this to your office in Horton House, Liverpool. I sent this to you on 21/03/2017. It was to my surprise that I received another letter from you dated 07/04/2017 advising you had issued this claim to the County Court Business Centre, therefore clearly ignoring my previous correspondence to you.
    At this point I sought advice from my insolvency practitioner who informed me they would write to you themselves confirming the fact that I had indeed been declared bankrupt and that the debt should have been included in this, as I am sure you are very well aware.
    This brings me to the point of the County Court Judgement which was made against me on 08/05/2017. I have sought further advice regarding this matter from my solicitor, my insolvency practitioner and the County Court Business Centre who have all informed me that as you were informed of my bankruptcy before the county court claim was issued, it should have never been referred to them and the debt should have been settled within the bankruptcy order.
    The purpose of this letter is to inform you of all the circumstances surrounding this mistake you have made and to give you the opportunity to make amends. You are being advised to amend your records and show this debt as being settled. You are also being advised to inform the County Court Business Centre of this mistake and ensure that this CCJ is set aside and removed from any records.
    If I have not received confirmation of this within 28 days of this letter being sent, I will be referring this case to my solicitor. You may contact me by letter or email.


    This was received on the 17th January and whilst 28 days have not yet passed, I am a bit worried they will just ignore this letter. I need this CCJ removed from my credit file as I have obtained an offer of employment abroad for a foreign exchange company who have stated this offer will not stand if I can not get it removed. I am due to start on March 20th.

    Given the fact that I have proof that the claimant was advised about my bankruptcy order before the CCJ was issued, what else can I do to get this sorted if they ignore my letter ?

    I appreciate this has been a long winded first post, I am really just at my wits end with this now.

    I also did try and start a thread for this however I cannot find the start thread button.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Rscott93; 04-02-2018 at 10:11 AM.
Page 2
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 4th Feb 18, 9:19 PM
    • 28 Posts
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    Rscott93
    Super helpful. Thank you.

    I will complete a N244 and a help with court fees form tomorrow. I will also check the post you mentioned and come back with my draft.
    • logician
    • By logician 4th Feb 18, 10:10 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    logician
    *
    I received a fine in the post from a private parking company way back in 2016. Anyway, I went bankrupt in February 2017, having not responded to any of the threatening letters I had received, I advised the Official Receiver about this debt as I had received a letter regarding a county court claim for this fine. The Official Receiver wrote to Civil Enforcement LTD advising them of the bankruptcy order and that all correspondence etc was to go to them now.
    >
    >
    >

    I have contacted my OR who it turns out is someone different now as the previous guy has left, she has confirmed to me in writing that this matter should have been dealt with, that the debt had been included in my bankruptcy.

    >
    >
    >

    My OR also says they do not directly deal with the county court business centre and that I have to sort it myself with Civil Enforcement LTD.
    Originally posted by Rscott93

    If the OR had stated that this debt was to be included in the bankruptcy then I would consider also raising this as a formal complaint as you should not be having to deal with this.

    Either they failed to add this to the bankruptcy or you were given misleading information that it had been.

    This is the link to their complaints process

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/insolvency-service/about/complaints-procedure#claiming-back-your-costs-from-us



    Really pleased I came across this forum earlier, seems like it is a great community full with helpful people. With regards to the N244, would I need to pay it then apply for some fees back? Or would the help with court fees form cover it all?
    Originally posted by Rscott93
    You will need to complete the form EX160 for fees application and send this with the completed N244

    Link for EX160 form

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/634329/ex160-eng.pdf

    Link for guidance notes for EX160

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/634331/ex160a-eng.pdf
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 5th Feb 18, 12:15 AM
    • 28 Posts
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    Rscott93
    If the OR had stated that this debt was to be included in the bankruptcy then I would consider also raising this as a formal complaint as you should not be having to deal with this.

    Either they failed to add this to the bankruptcy or you were given misleading information that it had been.

    This is the link to their complaints process






    You will need to complete the form EX160 for fees application and send this with the completed N244

    Link for EX160 form

    Link for guidance notes for EX160
    Originally posted by logician
    I will certainly consider raising a complaint if this issue persists.
    With regards to the EX160 form, I have just filled in a online thing on the .gov website which has given me a "HWF" reference number and advises me to put this number on my N244 form in the help with costs section. Will this suffice or should I also complete the EX160 form?
    • fermi
    • By fermi 5th Feb 18, 1:58 AM
    • 39,455 Posts
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    fermi
    If the OR had stated that this debt was to be included in the bankruptcy then I would consider also raising this as a formal complaint as you should not be having to deal with this.

    Either they failed to add this to the bankruptcy or you were given misleading information that it had been.
    Originally posted by logician
    That is not the way it works. The OR wrote to CL saying it was covered.

    The Official Receiver wrote to Civil Enforcement LTD advising them of the bankruptcy order and that all correspondence etc was to go to them now.
    CEL abused the court process by issuing a claim anyway.

    Unless it is defended as being included in the BR, the court has no way of knowing the status of the BR debt.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

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    • savvy
    • By savvy 5th Feb 18, 9:48 AM
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    savvy
    I have done loads of research, it seems there aren't clear guidelines set out for this situation . I did ppost this in the CCJ & Bankruptcy forum however a moderator thought it would be best suited to this forum and moved it
    Originally posted by Rscott93
    No problem, Fermi moved it with a view to moving you back - and as it's gone further than the original PCN, I can move you back across
    Honorary Northern Bird bestowed by Anselm

    I'm a Board Guide and volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly on Special Occasions, Green/Ethical, Motoring/Overseas/UK Travel & Flood boards, it's not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Report inappropriate or illegal posts to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Views are MINE & not official MSE ones

    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 5th Feb 18, 10:26 AM
    • 28 Posts
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    Rscott93
    That is not the way it works. The OR wrote to CL saying it was covered.



    CEL abused the court process by issuing a claim anyway.

    Unless it is defended as being included in the BR, the court has no way of knowing the status of the BR debt.
    Originally posted by fermi
    I am just filling in the N244 form now. I have a few questions.

    In the box on the top right:
    I am assuming the claimant name is "Civil Enforcement LTD"
    I am assuming the defendant is myself?
    I am assuming the date is todays date and NOT the date the CCJ was given?

    2: Am I a claimant OR defendant?
    3: I assume in this box I will write that I want the judgement set aside due to CE LTD not following the correct procedure and ignoring my bankruptcy order? (I will enclose copies of all documentation to prove this)
    5: Do I tick "without hearing"?
    9:"Who should be served with this application"? I have no idea what to write here.
    10: should I tick a witness statement or the evidence set out in the box below & write explaining the situation as it happened (with copies of documents to prove)
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 5th Feb 18, 11:07 AM
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    Rscott93
    Yes it sounds like it, as you are on that benefit (lack of income/savings should mean you are eligible):



    So you need form N244 (to apply to the court to set aside the CCJ) and to apply for fee remission.

    The NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum, has a section in the second post about how to set aside this trash. Show us your draft Witness Statement that you come up with, to accompany your N244.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Hi Coupon Mad, please see below my witness statement as requested.


    I am writing to you today with regards to a CCJ issued to myself on 08/05/2017. A bankruptcy order was made against me on 28/02/2017. I have enclosed documentation to confirm this. I contacted Civil Enforcement LTD and notified them of this bankruptcy order by letter, assuming that would be the end of this situation. It was to my dismay that I later received a letter from them dating 07/04/2017 advising that this matter has been issued at the County Court Business Centre, therefore meaning they had ignored my previous correspondence. I then contacted the Official Receivers office about this and they contacted Civil Enforcement LTD by letter advising, again, of this bankruptcy order. Civil Enforcement LTD have chosen to ignore this correspondence and have completely ignored the bankruptcy order, issuing this to the court wrongly. I have included evidence (copies of documentation to support this fact).

    Then, I received a letter from the County Court Business Centre with a CCJ default notice dated 08/05/2017. This further reinforces the fact that Civil Enforcement LTD had ignore both myself and the Official Receivers office, therefore not following correct procedure.
    The simple fact is, this matter should have never made it to court, the CCJ should have never been issued. I had been declared bankrupt before this matter was referred to the CCBC, I also advised them of this as well as the official receivers office, but they chose to ignore on multiple occasions and continue with this.

    The purpose of this letter is to inform you of all the circumstances surrounding this situation and to apply to have this CCJ set aside. I have enclosed a completed N244 form, I have also obtained a help with court costs reference number which is detailed on the top right hand corner of the N244 form. Also, I have enclosed photocopies of evidence of my bankruptcy and the letter which the official receiver sent to Civil Enforcement LTD advising them of this.

    If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me via letter or email.
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 5th Feb 18, 4:21 PM
    • 28 Posts
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    Rscott93
    For now, I'm going to move this thread to .

    Normally duplicate threads are not good, but this has such a cross over in dealing with the BR side, and the parking ticket company aspect, that I'll do it for now. Maybe moving back at a future time.
    Originally posted by fermi
    Hi Fermi. I have sought legal advise and as far as I am aware all I need to do is get help filling in the N244 form and sent the EX160 form with it. Apparently the CAB are best able to help me with this?

    I tried posting in the CAB part of the forum however I literally can not see the start thread button nor am I able to post to an existing thread. Why is this?
    • fermi
    • By fermi 5th Feb 18, 4:33 PM
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    fermi
    I tried posting in the CAB part of the forum however I literally can not see the start thread button nor am I able to post to an existing thread. Why is this?
    Originally posted by Rscott93
    From the top of the CAB boards.

    "CAB advisors answered questions here as a trial. You can't post now but we've kept the info."
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

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  • National Debtline
    Hi Rscott93


    I tried posting in the CAB part of the forum however I literally can not see the start thread button nor am I able to post to an existing thread. Why is this?
    Originally posted by Rscott93

    The CAB forum was only set up as a trial a few years back and has been closed ever since - it remains visible for info purposes only.


    Dennis
    @natdebtline


    EDIT - cross-posted with Fermi
    Last edited by National Debtline; 05-02-2018 at 4:43 PM. Reason: cross-posted with Fermi
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 5th Feb 18, 4:39 PM
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    sourcrates
    Send the completed N244 along with the EX160 form, into the courts, to the address on the paperwork.

    They will write back to you telling you if the fee is fully covered, or if you have to pay anything to proceed with the setaside application.

    Civil enforcement are the claimants, you are the defendant.

    Guidance notes for filling in N244 are here :

    https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/n244-notes-eng.pdf
    Last edited by sourcrates; 05-02-2018 at 4:43 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
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    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 5th Feb 18, 6:21 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Rscott93
    Send the completed N244 along with the EX160 form, into the courts, to the address on the paperwork.

    They will write back to you telling you if the fee is fully covered, or if you have to pay anything to proceed with the setaside application.

    Civil enforcement are the claimants, you are the defendant.

    Guidance notes for filling in N244 are here :
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    Thanks man. On the top right where it says name of court, is that the CCBC? Also is the date todays date or the date the CCJ was made? The guidance doesn't cover this.
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 9th Feb 18, 1:38 PM
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    • 5 Thanks
    Rscott93
    I sent my N244 form along with a help with fees reference by recorded delivery on 07/02, I am expecting it to be delivered today or tomorrow by the latest.

    What is the usual turn around time for these forms to be accepted or declined?

    Thanks
    • Rscott93
    • By Rscott93 12th Feb 18, 3:04 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Rscott93
    My N244 and help with fees forms were signed for today by the County Court Business Centre.

    The application was a fairly straight forward one, the CCJ was given after a bankruptcy order was made, the claimant ignored multiple letters from myself and the OR advising them of this and saying any amounts owed should be brought to the OR and not me, before the CCJ was brought. I enclosed a short letter outlining these events and included copies of documentation proving these facts, so hopefully the judge will be able to deal with this matter quickly.

    I am wondering however, how long typically can I expect to wait until I hear if I have been successful? I can't find a timescale online anywhere.

    Thanks guys!
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