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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Callum
    • By MSE Callum 29th Jan 18, 4:36 PM
    • 240Posts
    • 99Thanks
    MSE Callum
    MSE News: 'We need to change your meter'...
    • #1
    • 29th Jan 18, 4:36 PM
    MSE News: 'We need to change your meter'... 29th Jan 18 at 4:36 PM
    Big six energy firm E.on is sending letters saying it "needs" to install smart meters in "all" its customers' homes, MoneySavingExpert.com can reveal. But if you've got one of these letters and don't want a smart meter, you DON'T have to have one...
    Read the full story:
    ''We need to change your meter': E.on gives customers the hard sell on smart meters, but you CAN opt out'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Luke; 29-01-2018 at 5:18 PM.
    Read the latest MSE News
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Page 3
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 31st Jan 18, 4:12 PM
    • 3,226 Posts
    • 6,378 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Hello Mr Mann.

    It's the customer's choice how much information is shared with us. For example, readings can be collected from smart meters on a monthly, daily or half hourly basis.

    On installation, smart meters are set to collect readings remotely on a monthly basis unless the customer explicitly tells us differently. We use the readings to issue accurate bills and to record usage. This helps us work out how best to set up payment arrangements and to advise customers of ways to save money by saving energy. They're not used for any other purpose.


    For other options, customers can change their privacy preferences at any time. We’ll also remind them annually that they can update their data privacy preferences. It's down to the individual customer, though, as to how often we collect readings remotely.

    For independent advice about these options and choices, I'd talk to the Independent Commissioner's Office.

    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc

    One has to wonder for just how long it will be the customers' choice how often meter readings are sent from these smart meters. Why have the capacity for half-hourly readings unless the intention is to do just that? How long before some government or other decide the customer no longer has any choice about how their usage and therefore their movements are charted?

    I trust these things less and less with every word I read on here. Obviously, this will apply to all suppliers, not just to Eon. I think the "smart" thing to do is to refuse them unconditionally. Those who are too lazy to submit monthly meter readings to their providers may pay estimated bills with my blessing.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 31st Jan 18, 4:26 PM
    • 163 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    Michaelw
    This document suggests that BEIS will not give a final decision on SMETS1 adoption until Mar 18 (page 24):

    https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/media/440317/20171016_smets1_planning_conclusions.pdf

    Is it possible that you have switched to a supplier that uses the same model of smart meter as your previous supplier?
    Originally posted by Hengus
    I was thinking will SMETS1 meters connect to the DCC network through GSM mobile phone signals much as now back to the supplier?

    https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/about-dcc/



    When they invent one which takes a reading once a month I'll say yes. But every half an hour as they currently do is just spying. They will be able to tell when you're at home and when you're not, when you get up in the morning and when you go to bed at night. Just imaging when that gets into the wrong hands as it surely will as no system is completely unhackable (think Spectre and Meltdown for example, not James Bond films but recent security issues threatening nearly all computers, smartphone & tablets worldwide). An Englishman's home is supposed to be his castle, meaning a secure place of refuge, not one where you are being continually monitored. No it's not for me.
    Originally posted by Mr Mann
    It appears that British gas already do this in their terms and conditions.

    If you'd prefer us to only take one reading a month, you can write to us or phone us on 0800 980 6121. We'll also collect information about how your smart meter is working (for example, if it has any faults or has been tampered with). And we'll collect other details that help us manage your account and run our business smoothly.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/products-and-services/gas-and-electricity/our-energy-tariffs/standard/terms.html

    What this does highlight is that many of us just don't know what we are (or have) signed up fully.Certainly looking at the DCC infrastructure information is supplied to an number of outside organisations the terms fall short on that point.With so many involved the resulting costs to bills must be a substantial amount also when there is multiple involvment in the past the outcome hasn't been at all positive.It could well be that if there are problems a blame game scenario could rapidly develop.
    • l33tsp33k
    • By l33tsp33k 31st Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    l33tsp33k
    SMETS1 meters will not be software upgradable to support SMETS2, it's technically not possible. And there will likely be no requirement to replace SMETS1 meters if you already have one.

    And GCHQ were not very happy with the security standards on SMETS1 meters, so if you already have one - oops.

    SMETS1 meters technically could stay "smart" if you move supplier, but at the moment it's unlikely to happen, as most new suppliers are unable to take over an existing smart meter installed by another supplier. So your smart meter becomes dumb again.

    The whole smart meter con costing billions of pounds is paid for by you, dear consumer, in higher energy bills, and yet the government persist with their boneheaded and critically flawed plan.

    Research shows that the cost of rolling out these meters is going to outweigh any savings from reduced energy consumption for many years to come. The government is trying their hardest through "Smart Energy GB" and their cutesey marketing of "leccy" and "gaz" to persuade you all is well, but not really...

    The best thing to do is to refuse to have anything to do with smart meters until the whole mess is unravelled.

    See http://www.nickhunn.com/the-uk-may-need-to-replace-20-million-smart-meters/
    Last edited by l33tsp33k; 31-01-2018 at 4:56 PM. Reason: added a sentence
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 31st Jan 18, 5:58 PM
    • 10,798 Posts
    • 8,674 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    Why have the capacity for half-hourly readings unless the intention is to do just that?
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    The intention is very much to do that as it allows for better demand prediction and for usage to be accurately mapped to the supplier's customer base.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 31st Jan 18, 6:13 PM
    • 3,226 Posts
    • 6,378 Thanks
    Smodlet
    The intention is very much to do that as it allows for better demand prediction and for usage to be accurately mapped to the supplier's customer base.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    And charged for accordingly, from what I read; another reason to have nothing to do with them. Who do these energy companies think they are? BT back in the 80s with their "peak times" for call charges?
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 31st Jan 18, 9:59 PM
    • 5,939 Posts
    • 3,657 Thanks
    Hengus
    Worth a read:

    https://www.aspokesmansaid.com/energy/stories/content-13477/consumers-bullied-into-accepting-smart-meters--says-charity
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 1st Feb 18, 8:36 AM
    • 10,798 Posts
    • 8,674 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    And charged for accordingly
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    Possibly, it depends on your tariff. And if you consume energy at peak times when it's expensive to generate, who do you think should be paying for this energy, you or someone else?
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 1st Feb 18, 9:15 AM
    • 5,939 Posts
    • 3,657 Thanks
    Hengus
    And charged for accordingly, from what I read; another reason to have nothing to do with them. Who do these energy companies think they are? BT back in the 80s with their "peak times" for call charges?
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    The Government and suppliers want people to think about when electricity should be used and this will lead to the introduction of time of use tariffs. Once people accept 30 minute meter readings, then it should be possible when the sun shines and the winds blow to offer very cheap electricity. Cheap in the sense that it is better to give away the electricity than to pay wind farms to feather the blades on their generators. The downside is than when supply is low then, at peak demand times, people may have to pay more. The challenge is getting this right so that the majority of consumers do not end up paying more than they would do under the present pricing system.
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 1st Feb 18, 11:45 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    Michaelw
    Doorstep salesmen are paid £50k bonuses to flog smart meters: Tactics used to sign up families to the digital energy 'revolution'

    Doorstep selling is legal, but remains controversial Complaints from energy customers who feel bullied by high-pressure ractics
    So far around eight million smart meters have been installed in people!!!8217;s homes

    Energy salesmen are being offered commissions of up to £50,000 a year to convince homeowners to install smart energy meters.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    One has to wonder for just how long it will be the customers' choice how often meter readings are sent from these smart meters. Why have the capacity for half-hourly readings unless the intention is to do just that? How long before some government or other decide the customer no longer has any choice about how their usage and therefore their movements are charted?

    I trust these things less and less with every word I read on here. Obviously, this will apply to all suppliers, not just to Eon. I think the "smart" thing to do is to refuse them unconditionally. Those who are too lazy to submit monthly meter readings to their providers may pay estimated bills with my blessing.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    Hello Smodlet and thank you for replying.

    On the half hourly issue, from our end, the more readings we have the better our understanding of how energy is being used at individual properties. As I mentioned yesterday, this helps us work out how best to set up payment arrangements and to advise customers of ways to save money by saving energy. Having the half hourly option gives customers a choice in the way they want us to look after their accounts.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 1st Feb 18, 3:21 PM
    • 3,226 Posts
    • 6,378 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Hello Smodlet and thank you for replying.

    On the half hourly issue, from our end, the more readings we have the better our understanding of how energy is being used at individual properties. As I mentioned yesterday, this helps us work out how best to set up payment arrangements and to advise customers of ways to save money by saving energy. Having the half hourly option gives customers a choice in the way they want us to look after their accounts.

    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc

    Which is just double-talk for charging more during "peak times". Done with the B.S. All it boils (at consumers' great expense) down to is just another pathetic excuse to charge us more for the same thing. I am already being charged over £100 more per fuel for the next year compared to last year. What do I get out of it? Absolutely nothing except the satisfaction of knowing I am lining some fat cat CEO's ridiculously over-inflated bonus even more than I did last year.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • LameWolf
    • By LameWolf 1st Feb 18, 4:30 PM
    • 10,590 Posts
    • 116,012 Thanks
    LameWolf
    I for one am sick unto death of being offered "ways to reduce my energy usage". I don't spend money if I can avoid it, and that includes on energy; I don't switch on appliances unless I need them. But being disabled, with a severe autoimmune condition, I have to have adequate heat and light, as and when I require it.And I'm the sort of person who will sit in the dark and shiver if someone implies to me that I am using "too much" energy. Heck, I can't even put on an extra jumper unless my husband is here to assist me with it!
    Ok, rant over.
    LameWolf
    If your dog thinks you're the best, don't seek a second opinion.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 1st Feb 18, 5:06 PM
    • 3,226 Posts
    • 6,378 Thanks
    Smodlet
    I for one am sick unto death of being offered "ways to reduce my energy usage". I don't spend money if I can avoid it, and that includes on energy; I don't switch on appliances unless I need them. But being disabled, with a severe autoimmune condition, I have to have adequate heat and light, as and when I require it.And I'm the sort of person who will sit in the dark and shiver if someone implies to me that I am using "too much" energy. Heck, I can't even put on an extra jumper unless my husband is here to assist me with it!
    Ok, rant over.
    Originally posted by LameWolf

    Don't you be cold, LameWolf! If your energy provider is not doing everything they can to help you already, then they should be. I, for one, would like to thank you for your posts; I have learned from you. Is that not the whole point of a forum? Thank you.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 1st Feb 18, 5:45 PM
    • 10,798 Posts
    • 8,674 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    Energy salesmen are being offered commissions of up to £50,000 a year to convince homeowners to install smart energy meters.
    Originally posted by Michaelw
    If you believe a word of that, then I've got a bridge you may be interested in buying.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 2nd Feb 18, 5:22 AM
    • 1,716 Posts
    • 2,320 Thanks
    badmemory
    I wouldn't believe it anymore than I would believe energy suppliers trying to bully people into have smart meters.

    Oh whoops! I do believe that energy suppliers would try to bully people into having smart meters so that they can reach their targets. Also that it is worth paying someone lots of money to do that if it avoids them paying fines
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 2nd Feb 18, 9:48 AM
    • 10,798 Posts
    • 8,674 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    Also that it is worth paying someone lots of money to do that if it avoids them paying fines
    Originally posted by badmemory
    It's a nice conspiracy theory but very unlikely to have any grounding in reality.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 2nd Feb 18, 9:57 AM
    • 1,390 Posts
    • 1,166 Thanks
    House Martin
    It's a nice conspiracy theory but very unlikely to have any grounding in reality.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    I agree. This latest con will be associated with getting around doorstep selling OFGEM rules, and will simply be some suppliers using the smart meter roll out as a way round this.
    No suppliers will be paying any door knockers wages just to talk people into having smart meters.
    Switching to them is a different matter and that is where their commissions will be earned.
    Last edited by House Martin; 02-02-2018 at 10:22 AM.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 2nd Feb 18, 11:57 AM
    • 5,979 Posts
    • 2,718 Thanks
    LeeUK
    All energy companies can stick their smart meters up their pooper. I'm quite capable of reading and submitting my own meter readings and know exactly how much I use. I don't need no corporate spying and collecting info on me so they can use it for profit.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 2nd Feb 18, 1:39 PM
    • 5,939 Posts
    • 3,657 Thanks
    Hengus
    All energy companies can stick their smart meters up their pooper. I'm quite capable of reading and submitting my own meter readings and know exactly how much I use. I don't need no corporate spying and collecting info on me so they can use it for profit.
    Originally posted by LeeUK
    I am not sure that the millions of people now buying Amazon Echo, Google Home necessarily agree with you.

    It will be interesting to see when the rollout of UK smart metering is complete, how many dissenters actually standby their principles when faced with only a limited choice of expensive non-smart meter tariffs. These tariffs will reflect the extra business costs of dealing with just a few customers in a non automated way.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 2nd Feb 18, 2:13 PM
    • 5,979 Posts
    • 2,718 Thanks
    LeeUK
    I am not sure that the millions of people now buying Amazon Echo, Google Home necessarily agree with you.

    It will be interesting to see when the rollout of UK smart metering is complete, how many dissenters actually standby their principles when faced with only a limited choice of expensive non-smart meter tariffs. These tariffs will reflect the extra business costs of dealing with just a few customers in a non automated way.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Obviously not but I wouldn't want one of those either. Not because of any spying, I just see no point. I can switch the light on or turn the TV off myself without looking like a proper tw*t shouting "Alexa Alexa" every 5 minutes.

    And more expensive tariffs for non-smart meter users? So this is proof through the back door that energy will cost more during peak times and busy periods too? Hmmm!

    Also that post earlier about Capita collecting the smart meter data for the energy companies, why does a diagram on their website show a smart fridge freezer connected to a smart meter? If I had a smart fridge surely I would have it connected to my router not the smart electric meter? What do they want to know what is in my fridge for?
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