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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Callum
    • By MSE Callum 29th Jan 18, 4:36 PM
    • 234Posts
    • 98Thanks
    MSE Callum
    MSE News: 'We need to change your meter'...
    • #1
    • 29th Jan 18, 4:36 PM
    MSE News: 'We need to change your meter'... 29th Jan 18 at 4:36 PM
    Big six energy firm E.on is sending letters saying it "needs" to install smart meters in "all" its customers' homes, MoneySavingExpert.com can reveal. But if you've got one of these letters and don't want a smart meter, you DON'T have to have one...
    Read the full story:
    ''We need to change your meter': E.on gives customers the hard sell on smart meters, but you CAN opt out'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Luke; 29-01-2018 at 5:18 PM.
    Read the latest MSE News
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Page 2
    • Midnighter
    • By Midnighter 30th Jan 18, 4:42 PM
    • 11,078 Posts
    • 1,219,435 Thanks
    Midnighter
    Eon keep trying to book an appointment even after I've told them I rent so I have no right give them permission to make changes.
    Originally posted by Pound
    Same here. They rang to make an appointment several times towards the end of last year making it sound as though you HAD to have a smart meter fitted. This is despite us informing them that we rent, and asking if it was compulsory or not the first b****y time they rang!
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    • vm2pensioner
    • By vm2pensioner 30th Jan 18, 4:55 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 58 Thanks
    vm2pensioner
    The' problem' is that your letter, and indeed the message being pushed out by most suppliers, is that this rollout programme is anything but voluntary. The worrying thing is that I can find no reference whatsoever to the programme being voluntary even on SmartGB Energy's website.

    If smart meters are indeed voluntary then why is someone in authority within E.oN making statements such as:

    “To support our commitment to Ofgem to install smart meters for our customer base by 2020" (Quote from MSE article dated 29 Jan)

    In my opinion, it really is time that Ofgem got a grip on this by insisting that all suppliers use a standard form of words in their smart meter offers which includes a very clear statement that smart meters are voluntary. Then again, pigs might fly.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Had been considering switching to E.on. But in the light of the misleading letters they have been sending out about smart meters, I won't.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 30th Jan 18, 5:03 PM
    • 3,137 Posts
    • 6,245 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Had been considering switching to E.on. But in the light of the misleading letters they have been sending out about smart meters, I won't.
    Originally posted by vm2pensioner
    A few months ago I finally thought I had reached the end of my patience with nPower and, at the time, Eon had a competitive tariff. I read a whole load of stuff on here about issues with their website/online accounts so decided to stick with the devil I know. Am I glad I did!

    If it were not for MSE and several of the posters on this board, I would not know so-called "smart" meters are not compulsory, certainly not if I received a letter like the ones Eon have been sending out. Shame on you, Eon.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 30th Jan 18, 5:39 PM
    • 2,895 Posts
    • 811 Thanks
    AndyPK
    SSE have being doing some persistent nagging for wanting smart meters installed. Through all communications methods!
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 30th Jan 18, 8:38 PM
    • 1,704 Posts
    • 2,296 Thanks
    badmemory
    Nope.

    The DCC is now enrolling SMETS1 meters and I've switched supplier and retained smart functionality on my SMETS1 meters.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    Does your IHD still work?
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 30th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    • 5,907 Posts
    • 3,640 Thanks
    Hengus
    Nope.

    The DCC is now enrolling SMETS1 meters and I've switched supplier and retained smart functionality on my SMETS1 meters.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    This document suggests that BEIS will not give a final decision on SMETS1 adoption until Mar 18 (page 24):

    https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/media/440317/20171016_smets1_planning_conclusions.pdf

    Is it possible that you have switched to a supplier that uses the same model of smart meter as your previous supplier?
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 30th Jan 18, 9:29 PM
    • 5,907 Posts
    • 3,640 Thanks
    Hengus
    Nope.

    The DCC is now enrolling SMETS1 meters and I've switched supplier and retained smart functionality on my SMETS1 meters.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    This document suggests that BEIS will not give a final decision on SMETS1 adoption until 31 Mar 18 (pages 21 and 24):

    https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/media/440317/20171016_smets1_planning_conclusions.pdf

    Is it possible that you have switched to a supplier that uses the same model of smart meter as your previous supplier? If so, it will still work on a consumer to supplier basis.
    • jcontest
    • By jcontest 30th Jan 18, 11:02 PM
    • 73 Posts
    • 545 Thanks
    jcontest
    Your username is useless then mate!!!

    Trouble is the version one only works properly with your current supplier. All the other suppliers have software differences. So when you switch you might as well throw the monitor away.

    Second problem is they only supply one meter free, so if you what to upgrade to version 2, the meter has to be faulty or you pay to have it replaced.

    Plus there are more sinister plans afoot to control your usages in the pipeline coming once there is a tipping point in installations.

    The reasons they give in the letter are just superficial fluff.
    Originally posted by robin58

    What are these Sinister Plans you speak of?
    If I got a smart meter it wouldn't be for the batter powered usage meter that goes in the house, it would be so there would be more accurate billing.


    Don't forget that many of the SMETS1 will be upgraded to SMETS2 via a firmware upgrade.


    The whole idea of it is starting to seem laughable, not because of SMETS1/2 but because we are basically making a system where our energy suppliers are not paid for just being brokers - and having to do virtually no work. The same thing happened (is happening) with solar panels and other renewable projects. Consumer takes a loss so someone can buy something that your not allowed to directly buy, and sell it to you.


    For many users, the smart meter upgrade now is okay. Over 60% of people are on a standard tariff for > 3 years so you know they are sticking around as they were probably on a introductory deal for a year or two. For the other 40%, not an awful lot of them switch really regularly, but chances are that they'll make the move and might find the SMETS1 meters a pain.


    It's 2018 now and I have never been asked, when I am asked I will probably say yes. SMETS1 or SMETS2 makes no real difference to me, as a CUSTOMER if I want the data from these units then I still have to go and physically read the data. For me it gives nothing useful. For my supplier it gives nothing useful (as I provide the readings), for the reader company G4S there is a loss (as now they cant LIE and said they read my meters). And guess what, They still have to come around once a year or so to inspect your "Smart" meter the same as your non-smart meter!
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 31st Jan 18, 1:06 AM
    • 1,704 Posts
    • 2,296 Thanks
    badmemory
    The sinister plans....

    That would be the plans to cut down power, cut off power, & charge a lot more for power at very specific times of the day, much more specific than an economy 7 meter would do.

    Such as 7-9am one cost, 12-2pm another cost, 4-7pm another cost, 9-11pm another cost. 1am to 5am relatively cheap, all the rest another cost. Of course if your history shows that you are pretty much nocturnal then those charges available will be inverted, as in 1am to 5am will be relatively expensive.

    We just need to remember that (ignoring the very small newcomers) they are never ever no matter what happens going to accept a drop in their profits
    Last edited by badmemory; 31-01-2018 at 1:09 AM.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 31st Jan 18, 9:33 AM
    • 10,795 Posts
    • 8,668 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    Does your IHD still work?
    Originally posted by badmemory
    It did with 2nd supplier but we've just switched again so let's see.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 31st Jan 18, 9:35 AM
    • 10,795 Posts
    • 8,668 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    Is it possible that you have switched to a supplier that uses the same model of smart meter as your previous supplier? If so, it will still work on a consumer to supplier basis.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    There are ways for the data to be routed without going via the DCC but meters are now being enrolled into the DCC in "cohorts" based on how easy/hard it is. Some SMETS1 meters have such basic functionality that it's a PITA. The DCC proposed leaving some - particularly pre-pay ones - out of the system, but the industry leaned on them a fair bit.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • dgp1000
    • By dgp1000 31st Jan 18, 9:45 AM
    • 43 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    dgp1000
    I just told EDF that I would wait until they were installing SMETS 2 meters. No point in having old tech which doesn!!!8217;t work across different suppliers. There is no guarantee SMETS 1 meters can be upgraded. They were quite happy with this and haven!!!8217;t bothered me since. I guess they!!!8217;ve a load of old stock they want to shift.

    I!!!8217;ve now switched to Bulb and they won!!!8217;t be installing anything until SMETS 2 meters are available.

    For those who are worrying about differential pricing across the day. The whole point of this is to encourage people to change their consumption patterns to even out the load on the system and reduce the number of power stations needed. Large consumers already do this using Half Hourly meters.

    This is particularly important given the Govt. wants to increase the number of electric vehicles on the road. If everyone charged up at peak times, the system wouldn!!!8217;t cope.
    Last edited by dgp1000; 31-01-2018 at 9:55 AM.
    • edwal13
    • By edwal13 31st Jan 18, 10:04 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    edwal13
    It's always the same story these days from the companies, government, etc, we are doing this for customers' benefit. If you believe that, you probably vote a certain way.....everything is done for THEIR BENEFIT .....but in the long run the customer will pick up the bill.

    I've monitored my domestic usage of gas, electric and water for years now and can see at a glance from data sheets I've kept exactly what my average daily usage of everything has been at any time. It's not rocket science to collect the data then understand what your continual usage is. And your bills are a record too. Stop wasting water unnecessarily, turn your heating thermostat down a degree or two, control all electric appliances with some thought and then you'll save money. If you don't do this already then you won't refer to any smart meter either to get similar information but the suppliers will know even more about your habits than they do now....and you'll billed accordingly and more regularly even though a meter reader has lost their job!!!!
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    The' problem' is that your letter, and indeed the message being pushed out by most suppliers, is that this rollout programme is anything but voluntary. The worrying thing is that I can find no reference whatsoever to the programme being voluntary even on SmartGB Energy's website.

    If smart meters are indeed voluntary then why is someone in authority within E.oN making statements such as:

    “To support our commitment to Ofgem to install smart meters for our customer base by 2020" (Quote from MSE article dated 29 Jan)

    In my opinion, it really is time that Ofgem got a grip on this by insisting that all suppliers use a standard form of words in their smart meter offers which includes a very clear statement that smart meters are voluntary. Then again, pigs might fly.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Hello Hengus and thank you for your comments.

    Just to let you know, as I posted yesterday, I've sent this thread upstairs to make the necessary people at E.ON aware of Forum sentiment on this topic.

    To confirm, smart meters are optional and customers can refuse any offer to have them put in. We do mention this on our website in a couple of places. This includes on the page 'what is a smart meter?' and in the smart FAQs.

    Thanks again for your input Hengus.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    Same here. They rang to make an appointment several times towards the end of last year making it sound as though you HAD to have a smart meter fitted. This is despite us informing them that we rent, and asking if it was compulsory or not the first b****y time they rang!
    Originally posted by Midnighter
    Hello Midnighter and sorry you're unhappy with the contact you've received about our smart meters.

    As I mentioned above to Pound (#19), if you let us know you don't want any further contact about these meters, we'll be happy to set your account so it stops.

    Please give us a call, drop us an email or use the Live Chat service through our website. Alternatively, our twitter and Facebook advisors will be able to do this for you too. Helena and I are also here to help.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    A few months ago I finally thought I had reached the end of my patience with nPower and, at the time, Eon had a competitive tariff. I read a whole load of stuff on here about issues with their website/online accounts so decided to stick with the devil I know. Am I glad I did!

    If it were not for MSE and several of the posters on this board, I would not know so-called "smart" meters are not compulsory, certainly not if I received a letter like the ones Eon have been sending out. Shame on you, Eon.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    Hello Smodlet and thank you for your comments.

    As I mentioned to Hengus above (#34), I've sent this thread to the people at E.ON looking at the communications we send to our customers.

    Thank you again for taking the time to post.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Mr Mann
    • By Mr Mann 31st Jan 18, 12:04 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Mr Mann
    Meters becomig dumb not the only concern
    When they invent one which takes a reading once a month I'll say yes. But every half an hour as they currently do is just spying. They will be able to tell when you're at home and when you're not, when you get up in the morning and when you go to bed at night. Just imaging when that gets into the wrong hands as it surely will as no system is completely unhackable (think Spectre and Meltdown for example, not James Bond films but recent security issues threatening nearly all computers, smartphone & tablets worldwide). An Englishman's home is supposed to be his castle, meaning a secure place of refuge, not one where you are being continually monitored. No it's not for me.
    • LameWolf
    • By LameWolf 31st Jan 18, 12:53 PM
    • 10,568 Posts
    • 115,698 Thanks
    LameWolf
    To confirm, smart meters are optional and customers can refuse any offer to have them put in. We do mention this on our website in a couple of places. This includes on the page 'what is a smart meter?' and in the smart FAQs.
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    A question, if I may please Malc.

    I have no idea how old our leccy/gas meters are; as I understand it, they have a finite life and do at some point have to be replaced.

    If smart meters are, as you say, voluntary, and we categorically do NOT want to have a smart meter, when our old meter eventually comes to the end of it's working life, can we have it replaced with a "new" standard meter?

    Thanks.
    LameWolf
    If your dog thinks you're the best, don't seek a second opinion.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    When they invent one which takes a reading once a month I'll say yes. But every half an hour as they currently do is just spying. They will be able to tell when you're at home and when you're not, when you get up in the morning and when you go to bed at night. Just imaging when that gets into the wrong hands as it surely will as no system is completely unhackable (think Spectre and Meltdown for example, not James Bond films but recent security issues threatening nearly all computers, smartphone & tablets worldwide). An Englishman's home is supposed to be his castle, meaning a secure place of refuge, not one where you are being continually monitored. No it's not for me.
    Originally posted by Mr Mann

    Hello Mr Mann.

    It's the customer's choice how much information is shared with us. For example, readings can be collected from smart meters on a monthly, daily or half hourly basis.

    On installation, smart meters are set to collect readings remotely on a monthly basis unless the customer explicitly tells us differently. We use the readings to issue accurate bills and to record usage. This helps us work out how best to set up payment arrangements and to advise customers of ways to save money by saving energy. They're not used for any other purpose.


    For other options, customers can change their privacy preferences at any time. We’ll also remind them annually that they can update their data privacy preferences. It's down to the individual customer, though, as to how often we collect readings remotely.

    For independent advice about these options and choices, I'd talk to the Independent Commissioner's Office.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    A question, if I may please Malc.

    I have no idea how old our leccy/gas meters are; as I understand it, they have a finite life and do at some point have to be replaced.

    If smart meters are, as you say, voluntary, and we categorically do NOT want to have a smart meter, when our old meter eventually comes to the end of it's working life, can we have it replaced with a "new" standard meter?

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by LameWolf
    Hello LameWolf and thank you for your question.

    Yes, at the moment, if you categorically decide to reject the offer of smart meters when your existing meters come up for replacement, we'll fit classic meters that work in a similar way to those you have now.

    I've just checked and this is current practice. Not sure if this will have changed by the time your meters are due to be replaced (electricity meters are designed to last between 10 and 30 years and gas meters last between 5 and 15 years). As it stands now, though, we'll fit a classic meter if you reject the offer of a smart meter.

    Hope this answers your question LameWolf. Let me know if you need any more information as happy to help.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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