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I can't find this issue on the Forums re Sainsbury's and Horizon Parking Ltd
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Prof_Al
Posts: 2 Newbie
Hi there,
yes I'm a newbie on here, but I've tried to look through every thread on parking fines and charges I can; but nothing covers this specific situation as far as I can see.
My Son Edward is 23, and has Asperger's. He is self-sufficient, has a good job and a car and tends to obey all things signage wise when out and about.
On 18th October 2019 he received a letter from a company called 'Debt Recovery Plus' stating that he owed Horizon Parking Ltd - via themselves - £140 for an alleged overstay in the Brentwood, (Essex) Sainsbury's car park. This came as a huge surprise to him and to me when he showed me it. He had had NO notification of the alleged overstay from Horizon or Sainsbury's, and NO evidence or proof (photos or written) from either Horizon or included in the 'Paying Your Parking Charge of £140' letter sent to him by Debt Recovery Plus regarding the alleged overstay.
The alleged overstay occurred in Brentwood on the 17th July 2019 some 3 months and 1 day before he received this charge of £140 - apart from that we have no further information. Reading through the posts and threads on MSE, I thought I'd follow some of the advice and thus we raised this issue with Sainsbury's Careline via an online Complaint form. Their initial response?
This was it:
"Thanks for your email.
I'm sorry that you've had a poor experience at one of our stores.
Our car parks are managed by a 3rd party on our behalf to ensure that there is always spaces available for customers. If you overstay the time stated then you would be subject to a parking charge as displayed on the signs in the car park.
The normal process to appeal this would be to contact the 3rd party, details can be found on the parking notice.
Thanks again for taking the time to get in touch. We look forward to seeing you in store very soon."
It's obvious to me that the rep who responded had not read the email form we sent in, or if he did, he was uncaring as to it's content. We stated that Ed had NOT received a 'Parking Notice' and thus we have nothing to refer too. We even sent a jpg image of the front of the Charge Letter to Sainsbury's to detail the situation! To respond in such a facile manner, and to assume that Ed will be happy to return to a store where he can receive a huge parking charge with no proof he's incurred it is astonishing!
Therefore, we contacted Sainsbury's this morning and spoke to a lovely Scottish Lass who told me that they had had a few issues with Horizon but that her department had no sway over them and had no way of changing the situation for us.
She did put us through to the Brentwood store and we then spoke to a Horizon Rep who was on duty. His advice was to contact Horizon on Monday during Office hours as they 'might be able to do something'. Just what that might be was not stated.
Again, through looking through the threads and posts it seems that Horizon have not followed any of the processes they should have, have not sent any initial letter, have not submitted any proof of this alleged overstay, and have not bothered to contact the keeper of the car - my son - to ascertain his point of view.
They seem merely to have gone straight to a debt recovery agent who is stating Ed has until 29th October to pay the £140 or presumably they will take further action. Now I'm retired, my son has Asperger's. This is something neither of us wants or needs.
We have sent a notification to Debt Recovery Plus of the situation and lodged an 'appeal' via the Horizon Parking website. The chap we spoke too at Sainsbury's today suggested we phone them tomorrow (which we will do) and the scottish lady suggested that Ed should take what paperwork he has into the store tomorrow as well (which he will do).
But I am angry and frustrated. This whole situation seems to be unfair, unjust and alarmingly unproven. Again, having read through the threads and posts at no time have we stated who (if anyone) was driving the car, only that Ed is the keeper of it. Indeed, being told that on a day three months and 1 day in the past the vehicle you are the keeper of allegedly was in a store car park, allegedly stayed there for some time and then allegedly overstayed the paid for time without any evidence being offered is astonishing and alarming to say the least.
I'm at a loss as to what to do next - am I right to assume that as Horizon have not followed the processes laid down by the BPA, they are in essence in Breach of their own 'Contract'? Can they take this matter further? And how can we prove a negative - that no initial letter or charge/fine has been sent to Ed? He has received no Registered or Recorded Delivery letter via this and as he only gets a letter or two a week we are confident that he has not received any other letters - any he does receive he reads as he is diligent in that way. And had he received such a letter he would have brought it to me - as he did within minutes of reading the letter from Debt Recovery Plus.
I'm happy to fight this obvious unjust situation. A claim for £140 is outrageous and shows no proof of what i think is called 'pre-estimated loss'. We do not even know how 'over' any alleged paid for stay occurred on this day. We simply have had no evidence from Horizon or Debt Recovery Plus at all.
But utilising the letter Templates on MSE won't be helpful as they don't cover this situation and the charge has now been escalated to a Debt Recovery agent. So I am faced with my Autistic Son being hounded by a recovery agent for an alleged parking charge that has neither been proved nor even stated to him or me to any detail as all we have is a date in July this allegedly happened.
If anyone out there can help, advise or suggest a course of action, I'd be most obliged.
Thanks, Prof_Al
yes I'm a newbie on here, but I've tried to look through every thread on parking fines and charges I can; but nothing covers this specific situation as far as I can see.
My Son Edward is 23, and has Asperger's. He is self-sufficient, has a good job and a car and tends to obey all things signage wise when out and about.
On 18th October 2019 he received a letter from a company called 'Debt Recovery Plus' stating that he owed Horizon Parking Ltd - via themselves - £140 for an alleged overstay in the Brentwood, (Essex) Sainsbury's car park. This came as a huge surprise to him and to me when he showed me it. He had had NO notification of the alleged overstay from Horizon or Sainsbury's, and NO evidence or proof (photos or written) from either Horizon or included in the 'Paying Your Parking Charge of £140' letter sent to him by Debt Recovery Plus regarding the alleged overstay.
The alleged overstay occurred in Brentwood on the 17th July 2019 some 3 months and 1 day before he received this charge of £140 - apart from that we have no further information. Reading through the posts and threads on MSE, I thought I'd follow some of the advice and thus we raised this issue with Sainsbury's Careline via an online Complaint form. Their initial response?
This was it:
"Thanks for your email.
I'm sorry that you've had a poor experience at one of our stores.
Our car parks are managed by a 3rd party on our behalf to ensure that there is always spaces available for customers. If you overstay the time stated then you would be subject to a parking charge as displayed on the signs in the car park.
The normal process to appeal this would be to contact the 3rd party, details can be found on the parking notice.
Thanks again for taking the time to get in touch. We look forward to seeing you in store very soon."
It's obvious to me that the rep who responded had not read the email form we sent in, or if he did, he was uncaring as to it's content. We stated that Ed had NOT received a 'Parking Notice' and thus we have nothing to refer too. We even sent a jpg image of the front of the Charge Letter to Sainsbury's to detail the situation! To respond in such a facile manner, and to assume that Ed will be happy to return to a store where he can receive a huge parking charge with no proof he's incurred it is astonishing!
Therefore, we contacted Sainsbury's this morning and spoke to a lovely Scottish Lass who told me that they had had a few issues with Horizon but that her department had no sway over them and had no way of changing the situation for us.
She did put us through to the Brentwood store and we then spoke to a Horizon Rep who was on duty. His advice was to contact Horizon on Monday during Office hours as they 'might be able to do something'. Just what that might be was not stated.
Again, through looking through the threads and posts it seems that Horizon have not followed any of the processes they should have, have not sent any initial letter, have not submitted any proof of this alleged overstay, and have not bothered to contact the keeper of the car - my son - to ascertain his point of view.
They seem merely to have gone straight to a debt recovery agent who is stating Ed has until 29th October to pay the £140 or presumably they will take further action. Now I'm retired, my son has Asperger's. This is something neither of us wants or needs.
We have sent a notification to Debt Recovery Plus of the situation and lodged an 'appeal' via the Horizon Parking website. The chap we spoke too at Sainsbury's today suggested we phone them tomorrow (which we will do) and the scottish lady suggested that Ed should take what paperwork he has into the store tomorrow as well (which he will do).
But I am angry and frustrated. This whole situation seems to be unfair, unjust and alarmingly unproven. Again, having read through the threads and posts at no time have we stated who (if anyone) was driving the car, only that Ed is the keeper of it. Indeed, being told that on a day three months and 1 day in the past the vehicle you are the keeper of allegedly was in a store car park, allegedly stayed there for some time and then allegedly overstayed the paid for time without any evidence being offered is astonishing and alarming to say the least.
I'm at a loss as to what to do next - am I right to assume that as Horizon have not followed the processes laid down by the BPA, they are in essence in Breach of their own 'Contract'? Can they take this matter further? And how can we prove a negative - that no initial letter or charge/fine has been sent to Ed? He has received no Registered or Recorded Delivery letter via this and as he only gets a letter or two a week we are confident that he has not received any other letters - any he does receive he reads as he is diligent in that way. And had he received such a letter he would have brought it to me - as he did within minutes of reading the letter from Debt Recovery Plus.
I'm happy to fight this obvious unjust situation. A claim for £140 is outrageous and shows no proof of what i think is called 'pre-estimated loss'. We do not even know how 'over' any alleged paid for stay occurred on this day. We simply have had no evidence from Horizon or Debt Recovery Plus at all.
But utilising the letter Templates on MSE won't be helpful as they don't cover this situation and the charge has now been escalated to a Debt Recovery agent. So I am faced with my Autistic Son being hounded by a recovery agent for an alleged parking charge that has neither been proved nor even stated to him or me to any detail as all we have is a date in July this allegedly happened.
If anyone out there can help, advise or suggest a course of action, I'd be most obliged.
Thanks, Prof_Al
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Comments
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That’s where you’re at, nothing you can do (despite your inevitable protestations) as you’re beyond any appeal window (although you could try a complaint to the CEO of Sainsbury’s rather than their Customer [couldn’t] Careline). Just a case of ignoring anything DRP (or alter ego ‘Zenith’) throw at you. The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #4 covers debt collectors.So I am faced with my Autistic Son being hounded by a recovery agent for an alleged parking charge
Just be alert to a Letter of Claim and/or court papers direct from the Northampton CCBC. Come back on this thread if you get either.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
If you son lives away from you, then id simply ring up DRP and email them as (your son) change the address to yours and also email Horizon giving them your address as his new address.....
Its a very simple and effective tactic which stops being being harrased by the likes of DRP0 -
Is the address on the V5c (AKA Log Book) correct/up-to-date? That would explain why the original parking notice (and perhaps a follow-up) haven't been received.0
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as above complain to the CEO ........
Ralph:cool:0 -
Whatever you/your son does, it has to be in his name as KEEPER.
Don't bother with this: -
it died with the Beavis case some years ago.A claim for £140 is outrageous and shows no proof of what I think is called 'pre-estimated loss'.0 -
"Thanks for your email.
I'm sorry that you've had a poor experience at one of our stores.
Our car parks are managed by a 3rd party on our behalf to ensure that there is always spaces available for customers. If you overstay the time stated then you would be subject to a parking charge as displayed on the signs in the car park.
The normal process to appeal this would be to contact the 3rd party, details can be found on the parking notice.
Thanks again for taking the time to get in touch. We look forward to seeing you in store very soon."
Re the above email, thank you for getting back in touch, as you should be aware you are jointly and severally liable for the actions of any third party companies you employ/allow to operate on your land/property, this is known as Principal ( yourselves) and Agent ( the parking company)
And as such if you instruct the parking company to cancel they will have no option other than to follow your instructions.
My son who is on the receiving end of this has Aspergers syndrome, which is a protected characteristic under the Equality act and after carrying out a little research, I find it astonishing and deeply concerning that you are allowing an un regualted parking company to operate on your land on your behalf ( as your agents)
The British Parking Association limited, to which your agents Horizon parking belong is merely a private members trade association, and not a regulatory authority, or official body of any sort, and seem to be unable or unwilling to take into account certain key aspects of the Equality act, which for an organisation such as yours is astonishing.
I am therefore asking you to cancel this parking charge, and to make sure that your agents, as well as your staff are aware of their responsibility's under the Equality act, and that going forward any un regulated parking companies are are removed from and prevented from operating on your premises
I look forward to working with you on this matter and being informed n how you will be dealing with this serious issueFrom the Plain Language Commission:
"The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"0 -
copy in the CEO to0
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten of these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra work.
Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.
Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Your son has had a ticket and is now getting letters from DRP. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of identical situations on here.
At the top of this board is a thread that tells Newbies to read it first. Read all about debt collectors letters in that thread. There is a whole section devoted to them.
As others have said keep on at Sainsbury's. Try their CEO it sometimes works.0 -
No phoning them. Not DRP and not Horizon.She did put us through to the Brentwood store and we then spoke to a Horizon Rep who was on duty. His advice was to contact Horizon on Monday during Office hours as they 'might be able to do something'.
No phoning them!The chap we spoke too at Sainsbury's today suggested we phone them tomorrow (which we will do)
These are scam firms.
Send a complaint email to the CEO of Sainsburys.
And as advised already, if your son's address is different from yours, get him to email Horizon to say his address for service of letters is in fact {your address}.
I'm retired now too and this is nothing to worry about - he is NOT going to be paying any money (AT ALL) but to stop the stress for him, kill it by CEO complaint.
Maybe he visited twice in one day, is that possible in July do you think? ANPR cameras have a flaw, that if you visit twice in one 24 hr period, they default to the 'first in last out' images:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6056958
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6045752
That last one has the CEO's email and shows how to get it cancelled easily!PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
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