ESA 12 months up, what now?
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I do believe that the DWP were found lacking in not carrying out this exercise in the past which resulted in many people not only having their benefit stopped and for some not being paid the correct level of income where a Income Based top up should have been paid in addition to the Contribution Based element together with unpaid premiums as well.It would appear that you live within an area that is overstaffed with DWP civil servants.
Never have I heard or had personally any such correspondence or 'a knock on the door from a DWP employee'.
My experience has been the opposite. I was on ESA (contributions based) until I was 65! It was by chance that I realised that at 65 I should have been claiming an Income Based benefit as well and could have done so for the previous 5 years. When a claim was made for Pension Credit they would not entertain any of the unclaimed 5 years even though our income would have generated one.
As Tellit has said this was only in relation to people who were on IB and were migrated to ESA Conts only. The law required the DWP to assess them for Income Related but the DWP did not do this.
As to your own circumstances, Dan, the law allows you to backdate a claim for ESA Income Related to a date of a supersession that occurred within your ESA Conts claim.
A supersession would be for example when the DWP did your medical and decided to fail you or to put you in the WRAG or SG.
So tell me....
Are you still on ESA?
Did you make a claim for ESA or did you get moved from IB?
When did your ESA claim start?
Did you only claim ESA Conts?
When it started what rate were you on?
What date did your rate change? To what rate/group?
Currently the DWP are only allowing backdating to a date of a supersession back to October 2014 and no further, due to another law that restricts them from going back further.
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aussiesbird wrote: »Thank you for reading and responding to my post.
Whilst writing this thread I was on hold to speak to someone at DWP about the case. After being told 'we are extremely busy, someone will take your call shortly' for 50 minutes I finally got to speak to an advisor who was stuttering and stumbling around with her words looking for excuses. She disappeared twice to seek advice elsewhere then came back and said that she would send an ESA3 form and that would allow my husbands contributions to continue to be paid. I don't think she expected me to challenge this but I latched onto the word contributions and asked if he would still get paid his benefit to which she replied 'no'! I told her that we would not be completing that form as we feel we have been failed by DWP who haven't provided a date for a health assessment. She then said she would have to pass the case to the department who deals with it as she is in a call centre and as the department closes in 20 minutes its highly unlikely someone will be there to take my call so they will ring me back tomorrow!! One excuse after another. My husband is very mild mannered and accepts whatever he is told but I won't I'm afraid I'm a bit of a dog with a bone and won't give up until I am satisfied with the outcome. I have asked to be called back in the morning so that I have all afternoon to hang on the phone and start the whole argument again!! :mad::mad::mad:
All very reasonable, in my opinion.
We can argue about whether the government should employ more people in the DWP to man the phone lines but that really is a government issue not a DWP issue. The DWP already employ around 40 - 50,000 staff and they way the government are looking at the problem of staff shortages is that more and more people are being moved onto UC. UC allows theoretically for more claimants to manage their claims themselves and so requires less phone calls to DWP. So although the government knows there are staff shortages they are reluctant to do anything about it because the government is trying to save money and they think they have enough staff at the moment to cope with the future UC workload so they don't want to hire people now to have to then make them redundant later.
Now to the information provided. It is a complicated role to be able to answer every question conceivable about ESA, and not everyone can be experienced. Your ESA C is coming to an end and she rightly suggested an ESA3 as the primary solution. If you are not entitled to ESA IR it is because the government believes that you -by default- have enough money to live on. Someone else in your husband's shoes who has not earned enough as your husband has for conts, would be left with no money at all -because they have enough to live on from other sources- Your husband is therefore getting more than other people would get, albeit he is waiting for it to be confirmed that he will continue to get it.
Now to your problem and your circumstances.
You will have read my reply above to the OP, there is a lot of useful info there that applies to your husband.
What I would like to know from you is....
He is in the WRAG,.... how long was his WRAG placement for?
3 months, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years?
Did his placement run out and the DWP started the reassessment process themselves? or did you ask to be reassessed for SG?
If the former...it was a normal DWP re-assessment schedule, then the DWP are doing everything correctly - until you tell them he has worsened and want SG they won't know that.
If the latter... It was you who requested re-assessment for SG...- Did you send in medical evidence with your request or just a letter (see my previous post why I am asking this).
- When did you request it?
- Did you get sent an ESA50?
- Did you return it?
- Have you phoned Medical Services 0800 2888777 to ask:
* What date did you receive the ESA50?
* What date did you receive the ESA113? (doctors report)
* Has a decision been made on whether a face to face WCA will be required? & When was that decision made?
* If the decision for a face to face has already been made and it was made more than 3 months ago.... I would like to speak to a manger (at medical services) you ask that manager the decision was made more than 3 months ago how much longer is this going to take? If you don't like the answer say "I wish to make a formal complaint."
Let me know the answers...by the way I believe that phone line is open today on Saturdays...so call them now.
***BUT PLEASE TAKE NOTE of what I said in the reply to the OP above In the red bit in my post #25 , There are 3 possible outcomes of a WCA.
What date did your husband start his ESA from?...What date is the payments running out? (this relevant because your hisband's claim may be different to the OP's claim, so a different outcome is possible.
From what you have said so far and what I have gleaned from your posts... you are contacting DWP (wasting your time) when you should be contacting Medical Services.
EDIT to add;
In this thread you said thisaussiesbird wrote: »Sorry I didn't explain this correctly.
He is currently in the 'work related' ESA group and to get into the 'support' group needs a health assessment, which he is still awaiting.
When the 365 days are up what can we do as without that income from ESA we are going to be short on paying bills etc.
We have sent an email to our MP but haven't had a reply only an acknowledgement of receipt.
We are starting to panic a bit now.
Sorry for my confusion in explaining originally.
In your other thread you said it was a new claim a year ago and he is yet to be assessed. Both these statements cannot be true.
I wrote this reply based on what you wrote in this thread.
If he has been waiting nearly a year without assessment then I still suggest you are barking up the wrong tree, you need to do the bit in red above.0 -
Bit of info here:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=topic&catid=10&id=113959
Even if your ESA payments stop before an assessment has been completed, you will still be entitled to NI credits and the actual ESA claim remains extant.
When you are assessed and if found to be entitled to the either the support or work-related group, the additional amount (to the assessment phase ESA) will be backdated to the 13th week of claim.
If you are placed in the SG (or at a later assessment) payment resumes - even if it has stopped in the interim.
But, per my earlier post it is worth pushing the DWP not to stop payments, and providing them with any medical evidence you have to had which might suggest your husband could be placed in the SG.
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/making-exceptionAlice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.0 -
Sorry to butt in, but have a similar situation. I have just claimed conts based esa, i understand if I am put in support group it continues, but if work group, it stops after 52 weeks, but after 12 weeks I could claim again depending on conts made.
I was self employed until 2014 (no eligible NI) when I was then employed full time from sept 2014, until going part time feb 2016 due to ill health then was sacked due to this until july 2016. claimed esa for three weeks, then carers allowance from august 2016 until a few weeks ago.
Now claiming esa as too ill to care for anyone else now.
So based on this, if i get put in work group rather than support, does my NI allow me to claim again after a 12 week gap?
Not eligible for income based benefits.Always on the hunt for a bargain0 -
As Tellit has said this was only in relation to people who were on IB and were migrated to ESA Conts only. The law required the DWP to assess them for Income Related but the DWP did not do this.
As to your own circumstances, Dan, the law allows you to backdate a claim for ESA Income Related to a date of a supersession that occurred within your ESA Conts claim.
A supersession would be for example when the DWP did your medical and decided to fail you or to put you in the WRAG or SG.
So tell me....
Are you still on ESA?
Did you make a claim for ESA or did you get moved from IB?
When did your ESA claim start?
Did you only claim ESA Conts?
When it started what rate were you on?
What date did your rate change? To what rate/group?
Currently the DWP are only allowing backdating to a date of a supersession back to October 2014 and no further, due to another law that restricts them from going back further.
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All of this was before October 2014 so it seems not to be applicable anyhow But thanks for the info.0 -
Sorry to butt in, but have a similar situation. I have just claimed conts based esa, i understand if I am put in support group it continues, but if work group, it stops after 52 weeks, but after 12 weeks I could claim again depending on conts made.
You don't need to claim again, just ask (after a 12 week gap) that your tax years are considered again to include the next tax year that was not used when your claim was made.
What you are saying is youI was self employed until 2014 (no eligible NI) when I was then employed full time from sept 2014, until going part time feb 2016 due to ill health then was sacked due to this until july 2016. claimed esa for three weeks, then carers allowance from august 2016 until a few weeks ago.
Now claiming esa as too ill to care for anyone else now.
* claimed ESA for 3 weeks in 2016 then closed the claim.
* claimed CA from Aug 2016 until now when you closed CA.
* have made a new claim to ESA as CA is closed.
Have you had an ESA decision, are you going to be paid ESA Conts now?
Did you claim ESA before closing CA or at least did you claim ESA from the day after CA closed i.e. CA closed 5th March>>> ESA from 6th March?
This ESA C, that you have just claimed, will use tax years 15/16 & 16/17
*Note I did say to the OP "if you have worked full time for many years and claimed ESA immediately after stopping work" Thenthe OP will be able to do this. But you have been self employed, and only worked part time up to July 2016. You might qualify for ESA now, but when you renew tax years you would be using 16/17 and 17/18.... and you may not have earned enough in 16/17.
However, you have just finished Carers Allowance in tax year 17/18. This means when you renew your tax years on ESA as long as you satisfy SCC for 16/17 and 17/18, but you fail FCC for both of those....you can ask DWP to relax FCC to use any tax year in your whole working life. If you get paid ESA C now and you have had no gaps in your benefits since August 2016, Then you should be able to qualify again for another year after the 12 week gap in 2019.
Had you continued CA into April 2018 it would then also have been also "CA in Tax year 18/19".... You could have done this again for a 3rd year of ESA in 2020, but as things stand you won't be able to.
It depends on you qualifying for SCC Second contributory condition in 2019 on tax years 16/17 and 17/18.So based on this, if i get put in work group rather than support, does my NI allow me to claim again after a 12 week gap?0 -
You don't need to claim again, just ask (after a 12 week gap) that your tax years are considered again to include the next tax year that was not used when your claim was made.
What you are saying is you
* claimed ESA for 3 weeks in 2016 then closed the claim.
* claimed CA from Aug 2016 until now when you closed CA.
* have made a new claim to ESA as CA is closed.
Have you had an ESA decision, are you going to be paid ESA Conts now?
Yes Thats correct, just assessment rate as medical is months off i assume, hence I dont even know if i will be awarded wg or sg, these questions could be totally irrelevent,
if found fit for work or sg
Did you claim ESA before closing CA or at least did you claim ESA from the day after CA closed i.e. CA closed 5th March>>> ESA from 6th March?
Yes claimed the day after CA ended 26th feb ESA started 27 Feb
This ESA C, that you have just claimed, will use tax years 15/16 & 16/17
*Note I did say to the OP "if you have worked full time for many years and claimed ESA immediately after stopping work" Thenthe OP will be able to do this. But you have been self employed, and only worked part time up to July 2016. You might qualify for ESA now, but when you renew tax years you would be using 16/17 and 17/18.... and you may not have earned enough in 16/17.
I worked for 20 years before self employment fom 2010 to 2014but that doesnt count does it? for 16/17 my NI record shows paid employment £8, NI credits 70 weeks? no idea how its 70 weeks in one year tho. NI record show no gaps. But yes tax year 16/17 was very little earnings as only worked 8 weeks an had similar time on ssp, then just three weeks of esa before then claiming CA for remainder of year.
However, you have just finished Carers Allowance in tax year 17/18. This means when you renew your tax years on ESA as long as you satisfy SCC for 16/17 and 17/18, but you fail FCC for both of those....you can ask DWP to relax FCC to use any tax year in your whole working life. If you get paid ESA C now and you have had no gaps in your benefits since August 2016, Then you should be able to qualify again for another year after the 12 week gap in 2019.
Had you continued CA into April 2018 it would then also have been also "CA in Tax year 18/19".... You could have done this again for a 3rd year of ESA in 2020, but as things stand you won't be able to.
yes i can see now that ending CA before apr might not have been the best decsion, but i became to ill to care so it was the truthful decision, editted also it seems that if id waited i might not have been entitled at all to esa due to 16/17 earnings
It depends on you qualifying for SCC Second contributory condition in 2019 on tax years 16/17 and 17/18.
Thankyou very much for your help. So its 16/17 that will cause me the issue, due to lack of earnings, even tho I got CA for 7 months, I assume that in itself isnt enough
I really appreciate your advice
My mind is a bit fried, but I'm assuming 16/17 must be ok for scc as Im getting esac now. So could ask for fcc to use a pre 2010 year? Also Im not sure I totally understand this, but say for instance I claimed CA in the 12 week gap (if its still available to me then) then id have claimed ca in 18/19/and 19/20 so could get a third year, technically?Always on the hunt for a bargain0 -
Yes, if you are being paid ESA C now, then 16/17 is definitely ok for SCC, and since your benefits have no gaps from April '17 to April '18 then 17/18 will also be ok for SCC.My mind is a bit fried, but I'm assuming 16/17 must be ok for scc as Im getting esac now.
Exactly right.So could ask for FCC to use a pre 2010 year?
Your 12 week gap will be 27/02/2019 - 21/05/2019. So yes, if you claimed CA in that period it crosses both tax years 18/19 & 19/20. You could then use this CA award to qualify for ESA Conts for a further 12 months beginning in 2020 and 2021 (with each one using a different pre-2010 tax year)Also I'm not sure I totally understand this, but say for instance I claimed CA in the 12 week gap (if its still available to me then) then id have claimed ca in 18/19/and 19/20 so could get a third year, technically?
27/02/18 - 26/02/19 ESA Conts paid on your current award. Uses 15/16 & 16/17
27/02/2019 - 21/05/2019 - Gap
22/05/2019 - 21/05/2020 - ESA Conts Uses 16/17 & 17/18
(SCC will be ok for both, FCC will be relaxed using the CA you just claimed in 17/18)
22/05/2020-13/08/2020 - gap
14/08/2020-13/08/2021 ESA Conts Uses 17/18 & 18/19
(SCC will be ok for both, FCC relaxed only if you claim CA at any time in 18/19)
14/08/2021-05/11/2021 - gap
06/11/2021-05/11/2021 ESA Conts Uses 18/19 & 19/20
(SCC will be ok for both, FCC relaxed only if you have claimed CA at anytime in 19/20.)
and so on.....0 -
No, not correct. An ESA(C) claim made to start at any time in 2018 will still use the tax years 15/16 & 16/17.editted also it seems that if id waited I might not have been entitled at all to esa due to 16/17 earnings
So if you had waited till April/after April you would still have passed FCC and SCC because you have passed (qualified) them now.but say for instance I claimed CA in the 12 week gap
You can claim CA whilst you are being paid ESA(C)....no need to wait for the gap. Which is why I asked earlier if you had claimed ESA whilst you were still on CA or did you close one and start the other.
The thing about claiming CA and ESA(C) at the same time is that they cancel each other out, so you either get
£0.00 CA and £73.10 ESA(C)
or
£62.70 CA and £10.40 ESA(C)
either way both claims are live and valid and the CA can be used to relax a future FCC even if it did not pay anything....it's called an "underlying entitlement to CA".
If you claim CA in the first ESA gap it does cross the tax year boundary and it will pay you for that period while ESA(C) is not paying you, so yeah, a win, win scenario.0 -
Thankyou so much epitome. I'd have never known this if it wasn't for your post earlier.
Very helpful and explained well. Thankyou.Always on the hunt for a bargain0
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