Or wants money from family please help

13

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  • maxmycardagain
    maxmycardagain Posts: 5,747 Forumite
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    Q. What exactly can the IS do to collect money off dad?

    got me worried now...lol
    Now we all know how it felt to play in the band on the Titanic...
  • fatbelly
    fatbelly Posts: 20,463 Forumite
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    maxmycardagain wrote: »
    Q. What exactly can the IS do to collect money off dad?

    got me worried now...lol

    A county court judgement, followed by the usual court enforcement methods, including High Court. In excess of £5000 they could petition for HIS bankruptcy! But this is COULD, not WOULD.
  • Darrenm325
    Darrenm325 Posts: 33 Forumite
    Why did I not join this site years ago I have had a lot of help and advice I thank you all
  • maxmycardagain
    maxmycardagain Posts: 5,747 Forumite
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    fatbelly wrote: »
    A county court judgement, followed by the usual court enforcement methods, including High Court. In excess of £5000 they could petition for HIS bankruptcy! But this is COULD, not WOULD.

    i have it on good authority theres no blood in a stone

    :cool:
    Now we all know how it felt to play in the band on the Titanic...
  • Darrenm325
    Darrenm325 Posts: 33 Forumite
    fatbelly wrote: »
    Hi - me again

    That was always going to be the response from them to a phone call. And if you ring the OR they will just say to talk to CW.

    What he needs to do is send a letter, not saying he won't pay but that he can't pay, or at least can't pay all of it.

    I have sent you a pm fatbelly 😃
  • Potbellypig
    Potbellypig Posts: 775 Forumite
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    I have no advice on this, but it does cross my mind whilst reading this just how can your Dad be legally responsible for this.

    - person 1 owes person 2 money
    - person 1 pays person 2 money
    - person 1 goes bankrupt 11 months later
    - person 2 now legally responsible for paying that owed money back... ???

    Surely that isn't the case, is it?! I need a lie down...
  • Pricivius
    Pricivius Posts: 651 Forumite
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    Potbellypig wrote: »
    I have no advice on this, but it does cross my mind whilst reading this just how can your Dad be legally responsible for this.

    - person 1 owes person 2 money
    - person 1 pays person 2 money
    - person 1 goes bankrupt 11 months later
    - person 2 now legally responsible for paying that owed money back... ???

    Surely that isn't the case, is it?! I need a lie down...



    Try it this way:


    - person 1 owes person 2 £5,000, person 3 £20,000, person 4, £10,000 and person 5 £5000
    - person 1 pays person 2 £5,000
    - person 1 goes bankrupt 11 months later


    It is my understanding that if it can be argued that person 1 knew he was insolvent at the time he paid person 2 as he had £40,000 of debt, and that he had a desire to put person 2 in a better position than he would otherwise have been as person 2 is his dad, then this is preferential payment and the OR can seek to restore the position to before the payment was made.


    Why should persons 3, 4 and 5 not receive a payment, whilst person 2 has his entire credit repaid? This is preferring a creditor.
  • Potbellypig
    Potbellypig Posts: 775 Forumite
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    Pricivius wrote: »
    Try it this way:


    - person 1 owes person 2 £5,000, person 3 £20,000, person 4, £10,000 and person 5 £5000
    - person 1 pays person 2 £5,000
    - person 1 goes bankrupt 11 months later


    It is my understanding that if it can be argued that person 1 knew he was insolvent at the time he paid person 2 as he had £40,000 of debt, and that he had a desire to put person 2 in a better position than he would otherwise have been as person 2 is his dad, then this is preferential payment and the OR can seek to restore the position to before the payment was made.


    Why should persons 3, 4 and 5 not receive a payment, whilst person 2 has his entire credit repaid? This is preferring a creditor.

    Yes but how does person 2 become legally responsible for paying that money back? If it is ruled that person 1 paid person 2 when he shouldn't have, surely that doesn't or shall I say shouldn't, fall back on person 2 over 11 months later.

    I suppose the time period is massively relevant in this instance.

    An interesting case though, I think.
  • StopIt
    StopIt Posts: 1,470 Forumite
    edited 2 November 2017 at 11:49AM
    Potbellypig wrote: »
    Yes but how does person 2 become legally responsible for paying that money back? If it is ruled that person 1 paid person 2 when he shouldn't have, surely that doesn't or shall I say shouldn't, fall back on person 2 over 11 months later.

    I suppose the time period is massively relevant in this instance.

    An interesting case though, I think.


    Because from an insolvency point of view, the money wasn't person 1's to pay like that.


    If in debt like that, you pay pro rata (or contractual payments, of course), or not at all.


    Doing the above is literally taking money away from others.


    It sounds harsh to person 2, but it is person 1 that is being sanctioned. That money is legally recoverable, and yes, it'll be from the person who received it. You can't magic up another £5k from a person in BR, but that £5k in the OP example had to have gone somewhere.


    If recovering that money also puts person 2 in a crisis, they must seek help of their own, but from a legal point of view the OR is acting correctly in the interests of all creditors in a BR.


    Also to factor in here: If a person can just give all their cash to someone else before declaring bankruptcy and say they "owed" the money to the person, without a way to legally recover that sum it would be a system that would be abused in a heartbeat.

    In debt and looking for help? Look here for the MSE Debt Help Guide.
    Also, If you need any free and impartial debt advice, the National Debtline, Stepchange, and the CAB can help.
  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 46,946 Ambassador
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    Also to factor in here: If a person can just give all their cash to someone else before declaring bankruptcy and say they "owed" the money to the person, without a way to legally recover that sum it would be a system that would be abused in a heartbeat.

    Which is why the financial situation of the bankrupt at the time they made the payment is crucial. If they were not insolvent at the time, then there is less justification in saying that the payment treated one person in preference to another.
    If recovering that money also puts person 2 in a crisis, they must seek help of their own, but from a legal point of view the OR is acting correctly in the interests of all creditors in a BR.

    There is little value in trying to extract money from someone who has none to spare. The idea of giving person 2 debt problems over a payment made a while ago is not beneficial to anyone.
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