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  • FIRST POST
    • justcamehere5
    • By justcamehere5 6th Nov 19, 8:47 PM
    • 18Posts
    • 5Thanks
    justcamehere5
    Is education in the UK a scam ?
    • #1
    • 6th Nov 19, 8:47 PM
    Is education in the UK a scam ? 6th Nov 19 at 8:47 PM
    UK tuition fee alone is 9,250 GBP a year. A Bachelor is 3 years long.

    So that is almost 30 000 GBP in loans.

    I finished university last year with a loan for tuition and parents paid for maintenance. Got a very well-paid internship and paid them back. The internship resulted in a competitive (corporate gig for a big global brand) graduate offer and I have been working ever since.

    Don't get me wrong, I do not dislike people from other countries. I got married to my Singaporean girlfriend (yes, crazy early but we just eloped) But what bothers me is that on the same graduate programme I have people from Germany, Denmark, Netherlands and brits who did uni there and came back. Nothing wrong, just the fact that I have 30 000 GBP in debt with interest and they don't. Doesn't even matter at the end if you did a top UK school or one in Germany/Denmark where you just pay 300 EUR per semester. You end up in the same programme, make the same money and have the same everything.

    Given that taxation in the UK is similarly high as the aforementioned countries, did I simply get duped? I am mad as heck how those countries can have just as good universities as ours but they are free. I am so !!!!ed off I am might just get a Singaporean passport, move there and default on this loan. As long as my mum sends me Yorkshire for a nice cuppa, I am still a true brit. Amirite ?!

    Rant over.
Page 7
    • adindas
    • By adindas 26th Nov 19, 6:58 PM
    • 4,235 Posts
    • 2,709 Thanks
    adindas
    I don't understand this argument. Plenty of people just !!!!ed about at school too, no-one is asking them to pay back their school funding costs on top of normal taxes. Everyone has to pay for other people, that's how a tax system works. I barely use the NHS, libraries, public transport, social care, and have no kids going to school, yet I still pay for all of that, which I completely agree with. The question is why is university different?
    Originally posted by DragonQ
    Of course they are different. Children education is required by law to give all children the same start in their life so no children will be left disadvantaged; Higher education is not. Education provided to children provide basic skills needed by any job, Higher education is not.

    NHS, social care, public transport provide benefit to society, wider communities. What benefit to society, to the taxpayer if people are using student loan to study at the university just for fun to study mickey mouse degrees. After taking 80k of loan and finishing degrees they are working in the area which does not need degree at all getting paid lower than 25K. The taxpayer will not get back something in return, not a single penny.

    Compared it to those who study medicine, Dentistry, Accountancy, Engineering, etc. Finishing their degree they fill skills gap needed for this country. How many of them do not pay their tuition fee back ?? That tuition fee that has been paid back could be used to fund other people to study at the university.
    Last edited by adindas; 27-11-2019 at 10:00 AM.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 26th Nov 19, 7:44 PM
    • 3,244 Posts
    • 3,081 Thanks
    Manxman in exile

    NHS, social care, public transport provide benefit to wide communities. What benefit to the community, taxpayers will get if people are using student loan to study at the university for fun. After taking 80k of loan and finishing degrees they are working in the area which does not need degree at all getting paid lower than 25K. The taxpayer will not get back something in return, not a single penny.

    .
    Originally posted by adindas

    I'm afraid you have a much more materialistic and cynical view than I. I value education (including higher education) for its own sake. Not all value can be measured by pounds and pence.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 26th Nov 19, 8:57 PM
    • 3,244 Posts
    • 3,081 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    I think you're the only poster who has spoken about students going to university "for fun". I don't know anybody who has done that.


    I have no problem with students taking purely "academic" degrees so long as the degree is academically rigorous. This could, as somebody else mentioned, include a degree in interpretive dance. If the student acquires good academic skills, that's fine by me. I see higher education as a "good" (in the economic sense) that has value in itself and, hopefully makes the student a better person. I don't agree that degrees should be solely vocational.


    Where I probably agree with you is that some HEIs are simply not worth attending and it is ludicrous that they charge the same tuition fees as other better (eg RG) institutions. This is where the whole funding system is a sham.


    And I probably agree with you that some students shouldn't be allowed within a 1000 miles of a university.


    And far too many people go to university.
    • DragonQ
    • By DragonQ 29th Nov 19, 10:59 AM
    • 2,089 Posts
    • 719 Thanks
    DragonQ
    I think you're the only poster who has spoken about students going to university "for fun". I don't know anybody who has done that.
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    Indeed, this sounds like the whole "people living off benefits and having 8 kids" trope. It's so much rarer than is usually characterised by those who use it as an argument.


    To suggest that having a more educated workforce provides no benefit to society or the taxpayer is simply ludicrous.


    Where I probably agree with you is that some HEIs are simply not worth attending and it is ludicrous that they charge the same tuition fees as other better (eg RG) institutions. This is where the whole funding system is a sham.
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    I agree with this, the original idea that different courses would cost different amounts based on the quality of education and cost to teach the course compared to other subjects was never going to work. Why? Because government funds to universities were cut so severely by the 2010 coalition government that they all basically chose to whack every course up to the maximum 9k to compensate for reduced funds.

    And far too many people go to university.
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    I also agree with this, there is too much emphasis placed on it. While I think university tuition should be government-funded, I would say the same of equivalent vocational courses and apprenticeships.
    • VictorT
    • By VictorT 29th Nov 19, 3:39 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    VictorT
    Would be nice for the snarky who pop up to tell students they should shut up and pay up for their studies to dip into their pockets and pay for their previous primary and secondary schooling. But it doesn't happen, does it? They never even offer. I wouldn't expect more than convenient intellectualised excuses.
    To make it clear where I stand, I think students in the long term should have been made to pay something to discourage them from wasting time at university, and kept fees around 3k and have kept the grant.
    Last edited by VictorT; 29-11-2019 at 3:43 PM.
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