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  • FIRST POST
    • bonzojim
    • By bonzojim 12th Oct 19, 2:16 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 3Thanks
    bonzojim
    Holiday pay
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 19, 2:16 AM
    Holiday pay 12th Oct 19 at 2:16 AM
    Hi everyone.
    I have a question about my holidays from work. I get 5 weeks paid holiday a year and our holiday year begins on 01 September.

    I've booked two weeks holiday for the end of July, start of August next year and also the last two weeks in August (leaving a week in the middle where I have to work). This leaves me with one more week to take.

    I understand that if you don't take your full holiday entitlement, you lose those days. Come next year when I ask for that other week in August, if my employer says 'no', would they still have to pay me holiday pay whilst I work that week?

    Thanks for helping
    Jim
Page 1
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 12th Oct 19, 6:45 AM
    • 4,155 Posts
    • 5,568 Thanks
    unforeseen
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 19, 6:45 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 19, 6:45 AM
    Since you are already monopolising August, I wouldn't be surprised if the TELL you when you are taking the other week.

    Also don't be surprised if they re-assess your leave plan.
    • Blatchford
    • By Blatchford 12th Oct 19, 6:51 AM
    • 193 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Blatchford
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 19, 6:51 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 19, 6:51 AM
    Hi everyone.
    I have a question about my holidays from work. I get 5 weeks paid holiday a year and our holiday year begins on 01 September.

    I've booked two weeks holiday for the end of July, start of August next year and also the last two weeks in August (leaving a week in the middle where I have to work). This leaves me with one more week to take.

    I understand that if you don't take your full holiday entitlement, you lose those days. Come next year when I ask for that other week in August, if my employer says 'no', would they still have to pay me holiday pay whilst I work that week?

    Thanks for helping
    Jim
    Originally posted by bonzojim
    Of course you don't get holiday pay AND pay for working. And they can't pay off your holiday pay even if they want to - that can only happen when you are leaving your job.

    Just as a matter of interest, are you really that sanguine about working for an entire year with no proper rest periods apart from August? Or do you think you have some sort of cunning plan?
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 12th Oct 19, 8:44 AM
    • 3,814 Posts
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    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 19, 8:44 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 19, 8:44 AM
    Speak to your employer.

    I joined a company in June with an end of leave year in December. For 4 months leave wasn't thought about (no I do not recommend it) and certainly no opportunity to take/holiday time couldn't be agreed so my employer ended up picking a week ((yes I know they can do this)) before December approaches and put 4 days through last month on my rest days off without me signing anything. First I knew of it was when I looked at my payslip. So a payment of holiday pay was pushed through in advance of holiday year end. I just wish they got more creative with holiday time instead of handing out 'employed zero-hours' contracts.
    Not leaving my 'childhood' Home without a fight
    • General Grant
    • By General Grant 12th Oct 19, 9:03 AM
    • 1,160 Posts
    • 1,077 Thanks
    General Grant
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 19, 9:03 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 19, 9:03 AM
    Does the OP not take any bank holidays?
    • Blatchford
    • By Blatchford 12th Oct 19, 9:37 AM
    • 193 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Blatchford
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 19, 9:37 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 19, 9:37 AM
    Speak to your employer.

    I joined a company in June with an end of leave year in December. For 4 months leave wasn't thought about (no I do not recommend it) and certainly no opportunity to take/holiday time couldn't be agreed so my employer ended up picking a week ((yes I know they can do this)) before December approaches and put 4 days through last month on my rest days off without me signing anything. First I knew of it was when I looked at my payslip. So a payment of holiday pay was pushed through in advance of holiday year end. I just wish they got more creative with holiday time instead of handing out 'employed zero-hours' contracts.
    Originally posted by keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    As per usual, I can't really understand anything much that you say and you insist upon making every post about you and not about the posters query. But if I am to understand anything from this, the employer did not "push through a payment of holiday pay" but rather they told you when you would be taking leave. In which case that is all both entirely lawful and entirely common. And you having not requested leave for four months is entirely different than someone going eleven months between leave period.
    • Blatchford
    • By Blatchford 12th Oct 19, 9:39 AM
    • 193 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Blatchford
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 19, 9:39 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 19, 9:39 AM
    Does the OP not take any bank holidays?
    Originally posted by General Grant
    I wondered about that too. They obviously also don't have any activities and events that might require a day or two off for the entire of the rest of the year! Where I live, for example, everyone saves a couple of days for "snow"!
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Oct 19, 11:14 AM
    • 7,058 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 19, 11:14 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 19, 11:14 AM
    If the OP is only booking holiday for the very end of the holiday year, I would hope the employer would notice and tell them that they need to book the rest earlier in the year. It seems that the OP is trying to force a situation where the employer has to refuse them holiday and therefore pay the unused days. It's only in that situation that an employee would be entitled to the their normal pay plus the holiday pay.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Oct 19, 11:40 AM
    • 37,422 Posts
    • 23,103 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 19, 11:40 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 19, 11:40 AM
    Statutory minimum is 5.6 weeks so some holiday is missing from the OP.

    The employer could allow carry over of 1.6 weeks of the statutory and any excess contractual.
    • Blatchford
    • By Blatchford 12th Oct 19, 11:46 AM
    • 193 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Blatchford
    If the OP is only booking holiday for the very end of the holiday year, I would hope the employer would notice and tell them that they need to book the rest earlier in the year. It seems that the OP is trying to force a situation where the employer has to refuse them holiday and therefore pay the unused days. It's only in that situation that an employee would be entitled to the their normal pay plus the holiday pay.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    No, it isn't. The only legal situation where someone is paid for their holidays instead of taking them is when they get a P45. If they have the opportunity to take them before the end of the year, and simply don't take them, then the employer is perfectly entitled to "keep" the money! In this situation, the employee appears to have a great degree of latitude as to when to book holiday, provided the employer agrees to that period. If the employer refuses, then there is more than sufficient time for the employee to book another period. So the employer would have a perfect defence for neither paying the holiday pay not giving the holiday.

    Frankly, I am astonished the employer has already approved using so much of it in a single month, because for many employers that would be an exception rather than the norm. But whatever boat the poster is pushing out, they want to be careful because they could lose both the pay and the holiday if they aren't careful.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 12th Oct 19, 11:49 AM
    • 14,633 Posts
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    zagfles
    Statutory minimum is 5.6 weeks so some holiday is missing from the OP.

    The employer could allow carry over of 1.6 weeks of the statutory and any excess contractual.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Probably gets 5 weeks leave plus bank holidays. In which case carrying forwards a week should be OK, if employer allows it.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Oct 19, 2:09 PM
    • 7,058 Posts
    • 7,666 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    If they have the opportunity to take them before the end of the year, and simply don't take them, then the employer is perfectly entitled to "keep" the money!
    Originally posted by Blatchford

    I agree, and have not stated otherwise. I said that if an employer refused to allow holiday to be taken then the employee is entitled to payment for those days. If an employer tells an employee they must take all their entitlement by the end of August and the employee fails to take them through their own inaction that's a different matter. In the situation outlined by the OP it seems they may be considering leaving it until the last possible minute to request holiday, believing they can force the employer into paying holiday pay because of staffing requirements.

    To avoid that, all the employer needs to do is tell employees that they must book all holiday by x date. If that date is (say) 3 months before the end of the leave year there is plenty of time for said employer to tell the employee they can't have their required date and must take holiday on dates set by the employer.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Oct 19, 2:57 PM
    • 37,422 Posts
    • 23,103 Thanks
    getmore4less
    If an employee is unable to take holiday within the holiday year due to the employer blocking and the employer won't carry over or come up with a way to pay then keep very good records.

    On leaving employment retrospective claim going back to previous years have been tested in the courts.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 12th Oct 19, 6:03 PM
    • 40,094 Posts
    • 37,457 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    I'd check what the contract or staff handbook says about length of leave periods. In many places taking more than 2 weeks at once would not normally be allowed.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: TWO adult cardigans, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees, 2 sets of handwarmers, 1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 3 balaclavas, multiple hats and poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: pink balaclava (for myself), seaman's hat, about to start another cardigan!
    • bonzojim
    • By bonzojim 12th Oct 19, 9:04 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    bonzojim
    Hi again everyone, thanks for taking time to reply

    Over the past 18 years, I've been allowed to take blocks of 5 week holidays a few times (sometimes it's been granted by the unit manager, sometimes I've been told because it's over two weeks I needed to send a hand written letter to the HR department and give reasons why). The last time I wrote to HR in 2015, word got back she said No (so yes I was worried my latest request would be turned down again).

    Those two blocks of two weeks I mentioned in my first post were granted by the unit manager. I was obviously trying to avoid the letter to HR. The unit manager saw this week that I wanted and said I wouldn't be able to have it (despite not being authorised to grant it anyway).

    Around the start of July next year, the plan was to ask my unit manager for this other week in August and if he thought it wouldn't be possible, then ask him which week or 5 separate days would be suitable (I'm giving him over 4 weeks notice for 1 weeks holiday).

    @Blatchford. I have no problem with working several months before taking a break And we do get those paid bank holidays Occasionally we have shutdowns too (1 week near Bank holiday August, 1 week at Christmas) During shutdowns, all staff can choose unpaid leave or use up holidays.

    @TELLIT01. I'm not leaving it to the last minute, I'm giving them four weeks notice, hoping they will allow me 'that week' that I want, If not, I'm okay with them saying you have to take these dates instead.

    For me, taking 5 weeks rather than shorter holidays saves me money. Why pay for flights to South Africa twice when you can pay for it once? Visas, other transport too. I'm not a beach person and I like spending quality time in other places.... I was going to add I'd love to go on a volunteering holiday but Blatchford might make a joke about working all the time

    Thank you all again
    • Blatchford
    • By Blatchford 12th Oct 19, 9:17 PM
    • 193 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Blatchford
    Well the sensible thing would seem to be to explain all that to the employer and not to us? They might be more amenable if they have an explanation - and if you actually were volunteering then they might be a lot more amenable, but I assume that isn't the case. It just seems rather risky leaving it until July when that is peak holidays times anyway.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 13th Oct 19, 1:21 PM
    • 40,094 Posts
    • 37,457 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue

    Around the start of July next year, the plan was to ask my unit manager for this other week in August and if he thought it wouldn't be possible, then ask him which week or 5 separate days would be suitable (I'm giving him over 4 weeks notice for 1 weeks holiday).

    《Snip》

    @TELLIT01. I'm not leaving it to the last minute, I'm giving them four weeks notice, hoping they will allow me 'that week' that I want, If not, I'm okay with them saying you have to take these dates instead.
    Originally posted by bonzojim
    You do realise that you're no more entitled to a full week of the employer's choosing than you are to the five week break you're trying to wangle?
    Still knitting!
    Completed: TWO adult cardigans, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees, 2 sets of handwarmers, 1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 3 balaclavas, multiple hats and poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: pink balaclava (for myself), seaman's hat, about to start another cardigan!
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