Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

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  • rugbyleaguesmate
    rugbyleaguesmate Posts: 281 Forumite
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    edited 24 July 2017 at 6:03PM
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    Bit of a bbc update here...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40704036

    and a 32 page document here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/631724/upgrading-our-energy-system.pdf
    6.72kw Pv Ja Solar 280w * 24 panels, Solar Edge inverter, South facing no shading.
    South Lake District, delightful view of Morecambe Bay. Not Saving up for a battery too expensive:j:mad::hello:

    July Solar target 769kw
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    edited 24 July 2017 at 8:08PM
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    rugbyleaguesmate wrote: »
    .... and a 32 page document here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/631724/upgrading-our-energy-system.pdf

    Well then, I've read it ... and that's probably the most revealing thing I could say ...

    battery, waffle, car, waffle, smart-meter, waffle, smart appliance, waffle, time of use, waffle, renewables, waffle, supply, waffle, demand, waffle, big, waffle, small, waffle waffle, waffle ...

    And the conclusion is .... :idea: ....let's spend a little cash & have some more consultations to make the clueless and overpaid incumbents at BEIS (ex DECC) look like they know what they're doing all day long ...:grouphug:... oh, and I love the best bit - the government are going to set standards on smart appliances .. :rotfl::rotfl: .. when will these muppets come to understand that the required comms standards already exist and just need a little fine-tweaking to ensure that they mesh with the smart-metering communication protocol which has already been defined ... :wall:... if there's a need to do something, just roll up the sleeves and do it - why waste time ??

    Anyway, where's the plan to flood a couple of those steep sided valleys in Wales so that we could have a large scale pumped storage solution which would be both strategic and long-lasting so worth investing a couple of shillings to get a decent return ?? ...

    If battery prices come down quickly, that's fine - it's expected anyway ... but this 'plan' is pretty much not worth it's own weight in bluster ... :silenced:

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,004 Forumite
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    Surely such energy generation decisions are ideal for devolution to the regions where locally accountable politicians can decide on the trade off between the disruption caused by for example onshore wind or hydraulic storage and the revenue that can be earned from it.
    I think....
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    michaels wrote: »
    Surely such energy generation decisions are ideal for devolution to the regions where locally accountable politicians can decide on the trade off between the disruption caused by for example onshore wind or hydraulic storage and the revenue that can be earned from it.
    Hi

    I hope you're kidding ???? ... consider the impact that targetted 'poor little birdies and fishies' argument has on central government - put local or devolved government in charge and they'd tie everything up in even more public enquiries and reports than we get now ... there'd be no money left for anything, apart from paying retired judges and hiring public venues ! ... if you really need local & devolved government officials to be more useful, get them out of their expensive, plush offices and give them a broom to clean the streets or a spade to fill the potholes ... you'd soon see how important they consider work effort and public money is .... :D;)

    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • lstar337
    lstar337 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
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    zeupater wrote: »
    Well then, I've read it ... and that's probably the most revealing thing I could say ...

    battery, waffle, car, waffle, smart-meter, waffle, smart appliance, waffle, time of use, waffle, renewables, waffle, supply, waffle, demand, waffle, big, waffle, small, waffle waffle, waffle ...

    And the conclusion is .... :idea: ....let's spend a little cash & have some more consultations to make the clueless and overpaid incumbents at BEIS (ex DECC) look like they know what they're doing all day long ...:grouphug:... oh, and I love the best bit - the government are going to set standards on smart appliances .. :rotfl::rotfl: .. when will these muppets come to understand that the required comms standards already exist and just need a little fine-tweaking to ensure that they mesh with the smart-metering communication protocol which has already been defined ... :wall:... if there's a need to do something, just roll up the sleeves and do it - why waste time ??

    Anyway, where's the plan to flood a couple of those steep sided valleys in Wales so that we could have a large scale pumped storage solution which would be both strategic and long-lasting so worth investing a couple of shillings to get a decent return ?? ...

    If battery prices come down quickly, that's fine - it's expected anyway ... but this 'plan' is pretty much not worth it's own weight in bluster ... :silenced:

    HTH
    Z
    You expected something more from this government?

    They are only concerned with staying in power at all costs, and screwing up brexit. Everything else is just an afterthought.

    Even if they did have a solid plan, they would only u-turn on it a few days later.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,763 Forumite
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    zeupater wrote: »
    Well then, I've read it ... and that's probably the most revealing thing I could say ...

    HTH
    Z

    I'm glad you read it as I only skimmed it, in fact I did less than that just spotting the headings as I scrolled down.

    If (big if) the government offered some sort of battery subsidy as described by you a while back (perhaps 50%, dropping as prices fall) then the up take would be strong and fast.

    We can all hope and dream.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,763 Forumite
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    Yesterday was interesting on (in) the Guardian. They ran two articles one suggesting on-shore wind was now half the price of HPC (no surprises there) and one on household batts.

    Drop in wind energy costs adds pressure for government rethink

    Household batteries will be key to UK's new energy strategy

    The usual negative nancies had a go at me for suggesting batteries help balance demand and supply, HPC costs twice as much as on-shore wind and PV, and that HPC has a £22bn poison pill if we cancel.

    Nothing new there, I've attracted a loyal following of about 6 posters who have a go at me every day, but yesterday it ramped up with one poster calling me a liar in single line responses to every post of mine.

    I suspect the heat is getting too much for them (too much good news) and they may have to leave the kitchen soon, but it's remarkable how far these guys will take the spin and the aggression when you point out the world is changing.

    You'd think this was all good news ..... wouldn't you? :think:
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Yesterday was interesting on (in) the Guardian. They ran two articles one suggesting on-shore wind was now half the price of HPC (no surprises there) and one on household batts.

    Drop in wind energy costs adds pressure for government rethink

    Household batteries will be key to UK's new energy strategy

    The usual negative nancies had a go at me for suggesting batteries help balance demand and supply, HPC costs twice as much as on-shore wind and PV, and that HPC has a £22bn poison pill if we cancel.

    Nothing new there, I've attracted a loyal following of about 6 posters who have a go at me every day, but yesterday it ramped up with one poster calling me a liar in single line responses to every post of mine.

    I suspect the heat is getting too much for them (too much good news) and they may have to leave the kitchen soon, but it's remarkable how far these guys will take the spin and the aggression when you point out the world is changing.

    You'd think this was all good news ..... wouldn't you? :think:
    Hi

    Just had a read through the comments, seems to be populated more by ideological intransigence than original thinking & logic.

    Anyway, concerning one of the comments by a more informed poster - " ... These systems would allow generation equal to storage + 3.68kW. The benefits of larger PV systems is that costs fall as you go bigger (proportionately) as the PV panels are now a relatively small part of the price (~30%). Also PV panels keep getting more efficient, so more kWp can be installed on the same roofspace than before" ... there a couple observations ...

    - "... generation equal to storage +3.68kW ..." - I follow the reasoning, however, this would only be possible whilst there was available battery capacity to fill, after that the PV system would need to have the ability to de-rate to (say) 3.68kW or shut down.

    - "... that costs fall as you go bigger (proportionately) ...", again, understood, but the relationship isn't really proportional, a better description would probably be based on 'relatively' ... there's an analysis of actual installed prices for around 250k UK PV systems within the three FiT capacity bands here ....

    https://vriconian.wixsite.com/site/single-post/2017/06/17/4-Summary-0-50kWp---UK-Solar-PV-Installation-Cost-Analysis-April13-March17

    ... interesting how the changes to the FIT rates early last year visibly impacted the price of small systems, but seems to have had little effect on larger systems.


    - ".. PV panels keep getting more efficient .." - again, yes, but as referenced yesterday, substantially higher efficiency panels would result in a substantial cost premium, therefore eating into the cost benefits (£/kWp) ...


    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,763 Forumite
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    Hiya Z, good points, what's a better way to describe bigger systems costing less per kWp then, is relatively the correct English, it's always hard to get the wording right and understandable, plus of course the negative nancies and my personal troll CP look for ambiquities to shoe-horn in a claim that the whole argument is false.

    Regarding the batts and exceeding 3.68kW, you are completely correct. Once the batts are full the inverter would have to de-rate to 3.68kW. A clever trick (in the future) would be if they took weather into account, so on a good day the inverter wouldn't charge the batts till export hits 3.68kW to avoid filling them too soon.

    Of course most of these 'problems' thrown up by the extremists can be solved in many ways - DNO permission, hot water diversion, batt diversion, 3.68kW export rather than generation limit (tech arriving) and so on.

    What's really funny is that these same people like to argue that PV and wind don't generate enough, whilst also waffling on about excess generation.

    Also linked to that is that they class capping as waste (fair enough) but when you talk about nuclear they like to point out that HPC will be able to ramp down to 60%. But without any significant cost saving, that 40% is also a loss. Lot's of silly circular arguments, with the agenda clearly being to spread negativity, which is such a shame given how promising all the RE news is.

    BTW the guy that seems to have started tracking my comments and calling me a liar is obsessed with my claiming there is a £22bn poison pill on the HPC deal if we cancel early or during the 35yr subsidy period, I've supplied proof, but apparently that doesn't sway his opinion .....

    Hinkley Point C nuclear deal contains £22bn 'poison pill' for taxpayer

    Even the Express is aware with an article a week ago

    Britain could end up paying another £22billion for Brexit as EDF could claim COMPENSATION

    The best comments are on Australian articles ..... they don't take kindly to BS and trolling, the comments are rather forthright and colourful. :T
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,763 Forumite
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    Lots of people employed in renewables, and a guesstimate of RE generation in 2020.

    Nearly 126,000 People Employed In UK Renewable Energy Industry
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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