Council tax query change of flat .change of band ..

another_casualty · 17 November 2018 at 7:24PM

Howdy !
Tomorrow will be my 2nd anniversary of my life changing experience of relocating from Greater London to Poole in Dorset . Wow ! :rotfl::beer:
I first moved into a rented flat on Poole quay for 14 days .
I then managed to rent a flat for 6 months . Naturally I paid all bills ASAP and made sure I kept onto the straight and narrow ..including council tax!

From 30 Nov 2016-June 2017 , are the dates of my tenancy of my rental property .
However, I bought my present flat in March 2017 .March 31st being the completion date . I spoke to Poole council and tidied up the gap including paying for my home while it was unoccupied . Fair enough .

Now , the Finnicky stuff .

Living on my own , I get single person discount . (Wow again!)
I have been paying 2 months at a time / 1 month in advance .

For my home here, I have an outstanding balance of £196.00 / 2 more payments of £98.00 . Again, fair enough .

My valuation band here is , B .

Today , I receive 2 cheques from Poole council ( with statements ) .
One cheque is for £ 53.13. The other for £10.86 Not sure if it is time to celebrate .
The reason I have got a refund ( if it is true ), is that there has been a " change of your property's valuation band to band C " This is regarding the rental property??
On the bottom of one of the 2 statements , there was handwriting saying "total refund £ 53.13 "
Now, on both of the statements where it says "Total amount payable "
There are different amounts ..£185.14 / £153.73 "which is not included in this bill" .

Can anybody actually tell me how much I actually owe??
In one way , it's nice to get the cheques if I'm actually getting something back .
Before this paperwork arrived today , I assumed that I owe £196 for the place I live in now . That means I'm fair and square .
However, what I don't want is to be told I owe an additional £153.73 for the place I left in June last year .
What could be the case ( hopefully ), is that I actually owe £153.73 instead of £196 ( cost of outstanding balance for 2018/2019)meaning I've actually got a nice surprising bonus or whatever.

Please can someone advise.
Thanks for reading this long post . Don't you just love Council's :mad:

CIS · 17 November 2018 at 7:35PM

Slightly confusing and overall difficult to answer without seeing the paperwork but...

When you say 'statement' - do you mean a council tax demand notice or was it remittance slip ?

There are different amounts ..£185.14 / £153.73 "which is not included in this bill" .

That usually means that there are a couple of accounts in your name with an outstanding balance.

The 'statements' should show which address they are for, even if only by way of the reference number.

What was the council tax band of the rental property ?

another_casualty · 17 November 2018 at 8:16PM

Hello CIS

Thanks for looking into this.

The statement , is the usual council tax demand notice .
Both of the statements , are for the rented property .
The dates,30/11/ 16 - 30/ 3 / 2017 , 1/ 4 2017 - 30/ 04 / 17,
1/5 / 17 - 30/ 5 / 17 .

I've just managed to get a hold of previous demand notices.
In July 20 17 the valuation band for the rental property was D .
The demand I received today for the rental property is now valuation band C .

What is really confusing ( and possibly annoying ), is that I've done everything by the book . I paid for the time I was renting straight away . I paid for the empty flat I was moving into as well as the council tax for my rented property. I asked poole council politely if they were sure they weren't overcharging me . I went with it,and just paid whatever was and is demanded .
I just cannot see how I could be charged more if I've only been renting for six months and everything in my present home is up to date .
Hopefully yourself , and/ or others can demystify this .
Thanks

Craig1981 · 18 November 2018 at 7:44AM

judging from this years banding prices for Poole, it seems the difference is only around £192 between band D and band C - giving you were there for around 6 months, the refund amounts you have said dont add up, unless you have overpaid or SPD was not added when it should have been etc

it happens from time to time when a property is "downgraded a band" - nice and and easy for a council to process this if it is someone living there and paying council tax from when the change was made. very tedious when there are so many more charge payers over that time frame, as each would need to be re invoiced, and refunded, where applicable

1st notice period is for when you moved in, to the end of the financial year in 2017. second notice is for the new financial year. there however shouldnt be two accounts for this period, unless you had a partner or someone move in/out? this would probably be the reason for the two accounts

as said, refund do happen when banding are changed, if banding change is back-dated 7 years, they refund for those seven years...

i would personally call the council in the morning and clarify the amounts

another_casualty · 18 November 2018 at 8:05AM

Hello Craig .
Thanks for your help. It was only me, at both properties. All of this (
(possible rebate) is from the rented property. I did dispute the payments to them at the time,as I thought I was paying too much back then. I was told that their figures were correct . It seems that I was right after all ,hence the 2 cheques. The amount they say is outstanding,must surely be for the remainder of this tax year on this property. Then again , why have they put that amount on the previous flats reference number ?

I have a feeling that possibly there may be a shortfall where the landlady or her tenants haven't paid for the flat for a period after I left. Or, what could be more likely , the lazy way the demand was processsed means that the outstanding balance is for the remainder of this tax year for where I'm at now .

I will give them a call tomorrow if I can get through to them ,and see how it pans out .
If anyone in the meantime can shed more light on this please give some more input ..

another_casualty · 18 November 2018 at 8:06AM

Added post in error

CIS · 18 November 2018 at 11:10AM

The demand notices should show any discounts or exemptions that were awarded - do they show anything other than the period of liability ? The amounts would be in realm of what a D to C Band Reduction would give (allowing some latitude for any discounts/exemptions).

Can you post an image of the actual demand notice part where it show the adjustments ? Having two accounts, one for each year, isn't unusual as some councils still bill like that rather than putting everything under one overall account reference.

The main concern is however the part that mentions other balances - somewhere under your name the council are saying there are outstanding balances but as to where is something you'll need to ask them.

another_casualty · 18 November 2018 at 12:18PM

Thanks c I s
Unfortunately , I don't know how to post images on here .
However , I can list the wording on the demands that are mentioned .
Here goes: date of issue 17/7/17 ( period 1/4/17-30/4/17) valuation for your dwelling is B. council tax for band B £101.37. Unoccupied and unfinished no discount.
This is for my current address . Address if different box is empty
As I paid on the phone the total amount payable was zero
This notice is for information only

Date of issue 17/7/17 :valuation for your dwelling is D The council tax bill issued on 13 /3 /17 for the year 2017/2018 needs amendment because: there has been a change in your council tax liability
The statement below shows the charge for your property:
Period 1/4/ 17- 30/4/17 £130.33
Council tax for band D -£32.58
Less single person discount -£97.75
Total amount payable £0.00
This notice is for information only
Please note there is a further balance on your account of£752.00 which is not included in this bill.
This addressed to my new home address . The address if different is listed as my previous address.

Date of issue 6/11/18 to my home address. Date if different has my previous address. Valuation for your dwelling is C
The council tax bill issued on 16/5 /17 for the year 2017/2018 needs amendment because: there has been a change in your property's valuation to band C
The statement below shows the charge for your property :
Period 1/5/17-30/5/17 £115.85
Council tax for band C -£28.96
Single person discount -£97.75
Less payments
Total amount payable -£10.86

Date of issue 6/11/18 address if different is listed as my previous address
Valuation band for your dwelling is C
There has been a change in your property's valuation to band C
The statement below shows the charge for your property:
Period 1/4/17-30/4/17 £115.85
Council tax for. Band C -£28.96
Single person discount -£97.75
Less payments
Total amount payable -£10.86
Please note there is a further balance on you account of£153.73which is not included in this bill
( handwritten total refund £53.13)

Date of issue 6/11/18 sent to my present address
Address if different is listed as my previous address
Valuation band for your dwelling is C
The council tax bill issued on 8/12/16 for the year 2016 /17 needs amendment because: there has been a change in your property's valuation to band C
The statement below shows the charge for your property :
Period 30/11/16-31/3/17 : £450.97
Council tax for band C -£112.74
Single person discount -£380.50
Less payments
Total amount payable -£ 42.27
Please note there is a further balance on your account of£185.14 which is not included in this bill

One other thing: the reference nos: For some reason there are three different reference nos!! One of these has the letter X

That's it for now..

CIS · 18 November 2018 at 4:26PM

The X could mean anything I suppose - some of the council tax numbers we generated at my old council were the same but I was never aware of what the logic was. Poole may well use the same system as there were only a couple of main suppliers in the market.

The calculations for the Nov 18 demands are right overall in the credits due but they've done them in a very odd way (they reflect that you'd paid in full and then the band was lowered). Ignore the two for July 17 as they are not particularly relevant at the moment.

What I don't understand is why there are separate council tax demands for 1/4 - 30/4 and 1/5 to 30/5 - creating two separate accounts for that period usually suggests that they have been playing around with the periods of liability at some point and rather than just extending the earlier account they've created a new account.

It still doesn't explain the two balances of £185.14 and £153.73 though - I think you'll need to speak with them to clarify that and confirm where it's for as it's going to need them to check the council tax accounts. (It may well be a false figure - I've seen it happen plenty of times !)

another_casualty · 18 November 2018 at 5:16PM

Thanks again CIS .
I will ask them to clarify everything . Hopefully , the call won't last for days. I will ask them to send me another notice on what I owe for the remainder of the year . Looking at everything again, it could be that I owe less than the £196 which it would be before these cheques arriving .
I will let you know the outcome .

CIS · 18 November 2018 at 5:25PM

another_casualty wrote: »

Thanks again CIS .
I will ask them to clarify everything . Hopefully , the call won't last for days. I will ask them to send me another notice on what I owe for the remainder of the year . Looking at everything again, it could be that I owe less than the £196 which it would be before these cheques arriving .
I will let you know the outcome .

I suspect know what it is - it's down to the order the demand notices were generated.

Debt of £153.73 + credit of £42.27 = £196.00
Debt of £185.14 + credit of £10.86 = £196.00

Still very odd in the way that it is done but both those demands would match the balance for your current account. Each time they generate a demand notice will tack on a bit on the bottom about the current balance and it had tried (and failed miserably) to correctly adjust them for the credit - not sure why it did it in the way it did but I'd be pretty certain that is the cause (if they use the system I used to use it would do odd things like that if it wasn't manually corrected).

Council tax query change of flat .change of band ..

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