boundary issues

ritc · 17 November 2018 at 10:50PM

I wonder if anybody with more experience in how to buy a house could help us with two issues:

Our buying process is ticking along nicely, mortgage offer is in place, searches are done, etc. However, there are two issues, both related fo the boundary of the property, that make me feel nervous and which I think need to be addressed.

1. The boundary of the property was moved in 2004 and 'transferred' in 2012, according to the seller. The parent of the seller owns the property to the rear, so they extended their garden by moving the boundary of the garden of the house we are buying. They claim that the land registry is aware of the change in boundary. However, there is no documentation of the change and the entry in the land registry does not correspond to the physical boundary of the property. The garden is shown as about 25% larger than is actually is.

To be clear, I don't dispute the physical boundary. We are happy with the smaller garden. But I want the boundary to be clear and the transfer to be done properly, no least because I don't want any potential boundary dispute in the future. I assume they didn't do the change of the property officially as it was between family members. What is the most sensible thing to do: do I ask the seller to do a deed for the transfer of the boundary before we exchange? Or would that be an overreaction?

2. Our surveyor highlighted that the neighbour's extension encroaches on our boundary by 7.5cm. We asked the seller if there was an agreement about this with the neighbours. They simply came back and said the neighbours extension doesn't encroach on the boundary of their property. (I suspect they just don't want to have the hassle and don't care as they are selling the place). I asked our solicitor if it would be possible to get confirmation that we can use the sidewall of the extension as a party wall for our potential extension and to get confirmation that the boundary of the extension has no bearing on the boundary of the rest of the garten, i.e. the neighbours cannot move the fence by 7.5 cm into our garden. Our solicitor referred us to the official webpage for party wall agreements and didn't answer the second part of our question. Do I push the solicitor to get this resolved with the seller, or are we overreacting?

I know that most of these issue should be dealt with by our solicitor, but it would be good to get a sense of where we stand.

Any advise is gratefully received. I'm happy to hear that we are worrying over nothing if that is what it is.

Norman_Castle · 17 November 2018 at 11:08PM

I asked our solicitor if it wold be possible to get confirmation that we can use the sidewall of the extension as a party wall for our potential extension and to get confirmation that the boundary of the extension has no bearing on the boundary of the rest of the garten, i.e. the neighbours can move the fence by 7.5 cm into our garden.

Presumably you mean cannot. Is the 7.5 cm overhanging guttering?

ritc · 17 November 2018 at 11:41PM

Thanks, you are right (I edited my previous post).

I looked at the surveyor's pictures: yes, the 7.5 cm overhang the guttering from the first floor. The roof of extension overhangs by approx. 2-3cm more than that (which now makes me think that it would probably not be possible to use it as a party wall).

G_M · 17 November 2018 at 11:59PM

Find another property.

The sellers are not going to clarify anything, and they are certainly not going to move the rear fence back thus reducing the size of their parents' garden!

ritc · 18 November 2018 at 12:07AM

Please read my post. I clearly said that I don’t challenge the actually physical boundary. I just want the transfer to be property done, i.e. by deed, so that nothing can come up in the future.

What makes you assume that the sellers are not going to clarify anything? Could you elaborate?

My question is if these issues are something that needs to be addresses before exchange, or if we are worrying over nothing. Would it make it difficult to resell the house in say 10 years time?

G_M · 18 November 2018 at 12:13AM

ritc wrote: »

Please read my post.
I did

I clearly said that I don’t challenge the actually physical boundary.
I know. That does not alter my advice

I just want the transfer to be property done, i.e. by deed, so that nothing can come up in the future.

That's the point. I doubt the seller is going to amend the deeds (for either boundary!) before they sell.

What makes you assume that the sellers are not going to clarify anything? Could you elaborate?
1) they fudged things back in 2004 & 2012 (if indeed anything happened at all in 2012)
2) you wrote "They simply came back and said the neighbours extension doesn't encroach on the boundary of their property. (I suspect they just don't want to have the hassle and don't care as they are selling the place) "

My question is if these issues are something that needs to be addresses before exchange, Yes

or if we are worrying over nothing. No

Would it make it difficult to resell the house in say 10 years time?

Yes. Hence.......Find another property.

Cakeguts · 18 November 2018 at 12:23AM

If the vendors do not sort out the boundary issues with their parents house before they sell the house to you, you will finish up owning some of their parents garden because that is what it will say on your deeds. This will make your house almost impossible to sell.

It looks as if the vendors are not interested in sorting out any of the boundary issues so it would be a bad idea to buy this house.

Find a different property.

ritc · 18 November 2018 at 12:25AM

Thanks, that’s clearer now and it is good to know that we are not worrying over nothing.

I try to understand their point of view, but I struggle:

Would it be expensive and time consuming for the seller and their family to get a deed for the boundary change? I mean, they want to sell the house, the market is very slow, the house was on the market for a long time, the house is empty now and prices are definitely not going up.

And what could they do about the neighbour’s extension? Apparently, the neighbour got retrospective planning permission in early 2018.

Davesnave · 18 November 2018 at 12:42AM

ritc wrote: »

My question is if these issues are something that needs to be addresses before exchange, or if we are worrying over nothing. Would it make it difficult to resell the house in say 10 years time?

I'd want clarification now on these issues, just as I did with our present property, where the owners and the neighbour had moved a driveway and 'forgotten' to reflect this in the paperwork.

It was all sorted double-quick on the insistence of our solicitor, along with a couple of other matters where it served both parties' interests to make changes to documentation.

Sloppiness in making things clear in important documents is usually a sign of sloppiness all round, so expect to find corners cut elsewhere too.

BISCUIT1 · 18 November 2018 at 10:17AM

I'd definitely insist that they get things formalised so what is on the ground matches the paper work. Mine and my neighbours predecessors failed to do this which has meant a night mare for us as the 3rd neighbour who was there at the time is now just able to make up different versions of what was verbally agreed to suit their ends.

If things were agreed and everyone is happy what is the problem with getting the documents altered accordingly?

Trust me this has been a 2 year nightmare due to this issue and there is still no end in sight...I was aware there had been a boundary issue when I bought the house but was assured it had been amicably resolved so didn't question it further..a new fence had been put up but sometime after we moved the existing 3rd neighbour tried to move it again in their favour saying there was no agreement in place..he did back down and moved it back after I disputed this but surveys show it is still too far over on my side but neighbour now says this is definitely what was agreed and refuses to acknowledge it is incorrect. He has changed his version of events now he is danger of losing ground as opposed to gaining more.

Just my experience but I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

ritc · 18 November 2018 at 10:56AM

Thanks everybody. There seems strong consensus to get the documentation of the rear boundary sorted before exchange. That was my instinct, too, but sometimes I doubted myself as a first time buyer. I would have thought it is no issue as all parties are in agreement. If it doesn’t get sorted, we will walk away.

On the issue of the neighbours extensions encroaching on our boundary, what is the best course of action here? Raise it again with pictures and see what the sellers say or maybe try to speak to the neighbours (seems strange when we haven’t yet bought the house)? Can it be resolved or is it just as it is? And will it deter future buyers? Is it a reason to walk away?

Many thanks for the collective wisdom - it’s great to get so many people helping.

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