Burnt clutch - hire vehicle

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  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    esmerobbo wrote: »
    Most of my knowledge of clutches is from HGV clutches, I have seen clutches destroyed in a short time but this was usually because of poor gearbox use overloading the clutch.

    A normal slip would be caused by a worn friction plate or the springs breaking or weakening in the pressure plate.

    The friction plate in the picture does not look worn enough to cause a slip without another factor, Like a weak pressure plate, mechanical malfunction or contamination.

    From a distance I would say that you would have to badly misuse a clutch to destroy it in a short distance and if it was misused to such an extent the both components in the pictures would show much more damage.

    I would expect the friction plate to show much more wear or break up of the friction material, and the pressure plate to show blueing and crazing if it was badly slipping, and damaged in a short period.

    Thanks, so can we say that there isn't enough evidence in the pictures that suggest the damage could have been caused during my hiring period.

    I guess as you had initially commented, we need more associated parts to and preferably better pictures showing all sides to say something concrete.

    The fact that they decided to make it so vague and clearly didn't give me a chance to send a independent engineer to check the vehicle summarises their fraudulent intentions..
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    A court case would be decided on the balance of probabilities. With regards to the clutch, you would need a qualified engineer simply to state that it is unlikely that a clutch would be destroyed in that short a time by a single driver and that the damage could have been caused at any time previously, just because it failed on you doesn't mean you caused the damage. As the hire company cannot prove it was your specific driving that caused the fault, they will not be able to pin it on you. You depend on the judge grasping this argument, he will not be using his knowledge, but be relying on you.

    If you win, which you should, you would be able to claim costs.

    What you do need to be careful of is that there is a proper court procedure to follow. It can be intimidating for a lay person, especially as I suspect that this cowboy firm will not themselves follow proper process but then try and trap you for not following process (happens all the time in the parking court cases). It might be worth posting in the "Off topic" forum of the Pepipoo forum for real legal advice from real solicitors who will be more than happy to guide you.

    That is a very valid point, I have just done a post there. Hoping to get some pointers from the legal experts...
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    This is why I avoid small "independant" car hire companies, and prefer to pay a bit more for an international firm."

    These small hire companies will shaft you like this, keep claiming for the same damage over and over again to different rentors.

    I just looked up reviews for this company on yelp. Loads of people claiming they were charged £126 for pain chip damage. (should not have been charged anyway as they were less than 10mm small).

    When asked for receipt of repair on their insurance claim, none was provided so the hirer could no claim on excess insurance.

    We all learn, and I have used them in the past and obviously didn't have issues. But now makes me wonder if they had planted the idea looking at my history with them
  • JP1978
    JP1978 Posts: 527 Forumite
    edited 2 March 2018 at 10:13PM
    palasmy wrote: »
    Hi

    I had recently rented a Talento (10 seater) from Green motion and I'm now being charged 400 + 2200 pounds for a windscreen damage and a burnt clutch.


    P

    You do know that cars over 9 seats are excluded from the icarinsurance policy?

    *Edit* re-read some posts and can see they have said mechanical wear is not included but will leave the comment here - a lot of car hire excess policies specifically exclude cars with more than 9 seats - The one I use does as well.
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    JP1978 wrote: »
    You do know that cars over 9 seats are excluded from the icarinsurance policy?

    *Edit* re-read some posts and can see they have said mechanical wear is not included but will leave the comment here - a lot of car hire excess policies specifically exclude cars with more than 9 seats - The one I use does as well.

    Yes I did realise that, which makes my stand to sue them even more strong.:( I really can't afford and it feels so upsetting and angry when u think it potentially can be no fault of mine!!
  • esmerobbo
    esmerobbo Posts: 4,979
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    palasmy wrote: »
    Thanks, so can we say that there isn't enough evidence in the pictures that suggest the damage could have been caused during my hiring period.

    I guess as you had initially commented, we need more associated parts to and preferably better pictures showing all sides to say something concrete.

    The fact that they decided to make it so vague and clearly didn't give me a chance to send a independent engineer to check the vehicle summarises their fraudulent intentions..

    Yes without giving you the chance to physically examine the clutch and all associated parts it puts you at a disadvantage, plus they are going from what a dealer has told them a dealer who got well paid for the clutch.

    If a part goes wrong before it is supposed too it would normally be covered by a warranty. Anyone in the motor trade will tell you one of the most difficult parts to achieve a warranty claim on is a clutch. Because they can be abused, however nailing down when that abuse took place unless there was only one driver would be difficult.

    The hirer before you could have towed a bus with it but left just enough meat on it to avoid slipping. Then during your hire the clutch gives up.

    The only way they could say it was definatly you who destroyed that clutch is to show it was perfect before you hired it, how do they do that?

    If the vehicle was within the warranty period they should have sent the clutch to the manufacturers for inspection. If it was outside the warranty period then the clutch had exceeded the mileage it was covered for. Hence according to the manufactures it would be expected to fail under normal wear and tear.

    They are making a huge presumption that rather then the clutch failing you destroyed it.
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    esmerobbo wrote: »
    Yes without giving you the chance to physically examine the clutch and all associated parts it puts you at a disadvantage, plus they are going from what a dealer has told them a dealer who got well paid for the clutch.

    If a part goes wrong before it is supposed too it would normally be covered by a warranty. Anyone in the motor trade will tell you one of the most difficult parts to achieve a warranty claim on is a clutch. Because they can be abused, however nailing down when that abuse took place unless there was only one driver would be difficult.

    The hirer before you could have towed a bus with it but left just enough meat on it to avoid slipping. Then during your hire the clutch gives up.

    The only way they could say it was definatly you who destroyed that clutch is to show it was perfect before you hired it, how do they do that?

    If the vehicle was within the warranty period they should have sent the clutch to the manufacturers for inspection. If it was outside the warranty period then the clutch had exceeded the mileage it was covered for. Hence according to the manufactures it would be expected to fail under normal wear and tear.

    They are making a huge presumption that rather then the clutch failing you destroyed it.

    Exactly with a car that is only less than 2 years old and also hasn't done too many miles, I'm just confused as to why would they avoid not taking up either the warranty route or the manufacturer design fault complaint.

    And the whole mechanical fault cannot be a lie too to say they are just fabricating the whole story to make money as I have definitely felt the issue while driving that car...
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    For those interested in following this topic on Pepipoo, below is the link,

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=119043
  • System
    System Posts: 178,077
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    Zandoni wrote: »
    The angle of the picture doesn't the thickness of the plate at all, if you compare it with a picture of a new one it hardly looks worn.

    It does show the thickness of the plate. You can see there's plenty of meat on it when you look at the holes where the rivets sit and the fact there are still quite deep grooves in the friction material. When its worn to the point of slipping then those grooves no longer exist and the face of the rivet is usually flush with the surface of the friction material.

    That clutch friction plate was far from worn so by my reckoning the slipping is being caused by something else which could even be something like an automatic self adjuster in the cable being at fault if its a cable operated one that uses a pawl and ratchet type of auto adjuster. It definitely has been slipping because you can see the marking on the pressure plate.
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    Tarambor wrote: »
    It does show the thickness of the plate. You can see there's plenty of meat on it when you look at the holes where the rivets sit and the fact there are still quite deep grooves in the friction material. When its worn to the point of slipping then those grooves no longer exist and the face of the rivet is usually flush with the surface of the friction material.

    That clutch friction plate was far from worn so by my reckoning the slipping is being caused by something else which could even be something like an automatic self adjuster in the cable being at fault if its a cable operated one that uses a pawl and ratchet type of auto adjuster. It definitely has been slipping because you can see the marking on the pressure plate.

    So is it possible for the slipping to occur because of driving, i.e. misuse of clutch at such a short travel??
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