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  • FIRST POST
    Veryannoyed
    Putting home into family trust to avoid nursing home fees
    • #1
    • 15th Dec 11, 9:23 AM
    Putting home into family trust to avoid nursing home fees 15th Dec 11 at 9:23 AM
    I'm afraid I'm not prepared to lose my only asset, my home, to pay nursing home fees so I'm considering putting it into a family trust with my children as the beneficiaries.

    Does anyone have experience of this and the pitfalls?

    We're already likely to lose my mother's home for this reason (her fees are 46,000 a year) and if there is a legal way of making sure our children inherit all we have worked so hard for over the years then we will take it.

    The PCT / social services have been entirely ruthless in the way they have dealt with the family over my mother's case and although we did achieve full funding for her for a while it was quickly removed.

    I'm going to be equally ruthless in preventing them from getting their hands on my hard earned cash.
Page 3
    • madelaine
    • By madelaine 16th Dec 11, 11:51 PM
    • 255 Posts
    • 271 Thanks
    madelaine
    They claimed what they were entitled too, and rightly so, so just because someone needs to go into a care home as they have Dementia, they should have to give up everything, why should they? if they are entitled to CHC, these people have paid National Insurance all there lifes, and never claimed a penny, they were not entitled too,(certainly true in my aunts case) yet lots of people, i am sure we will all know someone, work shy, who have never paid into the system, but know how to claim everything going, If a relative has a primary health care need, why should they have to sell there home, when this care should automatically be funded by the NHS, ask yourselves this question ,if your relative had some other disease, such as Cancer, would you think it is fair to have to sell there home to recieve care, and for the people who state relatives should look after there own family, this is not always possible,nobody is able to give 24 hour care, even if we wanted too, especially when a relative becomes unreconisable, totally out of character, agressive, most people hopefully will not have to face this situation, but, if and when you do, i am hoping things change and you don't have to fight for your relatives rights.
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 17th Dec 11, 1:29 PM
    • 27,141 Posts
    • 71,284 Thanks
    pollypenny
    A fair point, especially as the younger generation will receive no help with deposits from inheritance if the parental home is sold, and also as more and more people are removing their assets from harm's way long before the time they may need care.
    Originally posted by andyrules


    Gosh - someone was lucky.

    I don't know anyone who has had an inheritance to fund house purchase.

    We helped our kids get on their feet, with part of a deposit and with older cars. However, if either of us needs care, then I do not expect others to pay for it through taxes, so that the kids have a financial windfall.

    They are professionals. They can work for it, as we did. If there is something, left, all well and good.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
  • andyrules



    Gosh - someone was lucky.

    I don't know anyone who has had an inheritance to fund house purchase.

    We helped our kids get on their feet, with part of a deposit and with older cars. However, if either of us needs care, then I do not expect others to pay for it through taxes, so that the kids have a financial windfall.

    They are professionals. They can work for it, as we did. If there is something, left, all well and good.
    Originally posted by pollypenny
    I'm talking generally, I think Mrs Money raises a valid point. Many younger people are renting long term and from what I hear around me money savvy people are protecting their assets one way or another. Eventually, those with property to be placed under a charge will dwindle. There needs to be a better and fairer system put in place sooner rather than later.

    And without thinking too hard, I know of at least one person who bought his house from his inheritance.
  • lissadenton
    let this be a warning to anyone setting up a trust for their home.

    a friend and his wife did this. When she died her relative inherited her half.
    Now the friend wants to sell up and move with his new girlfriend.

    He wants to live off the proceeds of his house-but he now has to give the relative his half.

    We are not talking about an expensive house -so the money is going to have to eked out.

    He is furious.

    Be very careful what you do.
  • Veryannoyed
    Thanks very much Lisa, this is exactly the pitfall I am pleased to hear about. I am getting a good solicitor with experience of trusts to advise me.
  • lissadenton
    His problem now is-the trust was too good-he cannot rescind it-even though he would love too. He has fallen on hard times, lost job and hoped to live off his asset-now he's only got a small amount of money to live on as he may never work again.
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 18th Dec 11, 5:01 PM
    • 27,141 Posts
    • 71,284 Thanks
    pollypenny
    The trust Lisa mentions was badly drawn up. It'susual to leave the surviving spouse with access to the estate for all needs.

    I'm not talking about world cruises, but what everyone would consider reasonable.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
  • lissadenton
    it was too well drawn up. He wanted to protect his relatives inheritance-and never made a get out clause.
    He also never expected his wife to die so young.
  • savvyme
    I'm afraid I'm not prepared to lose my only asset, my home, to pay nursing home fees so I'm considering putting it into a family trust with my children as the beneficiaries.

    Does anyone have experience of this and the pitfalls?

    We're already likely to lose my mother's home for this reason (her fees are 46,000 a year) and if there is a legal way of making sure our children inherit all we have worked so hard for over the years then we will take it.

    The PCT / social services have been entirely ruthless in the way they have dealt with the family over my mother's case and although we did achieve full funding for her for a while it was quickly removed.

    I'm going to be equally ruthless in preventing them from getting their hands on my hard earned cash.
    Originally posted by Veryannoyed
    I totally agree with everything you have said on here. I am experiencing the same with my elderly parents at 475 per week for care home fees... disgraceful
  • Oldernotwiser
    I totally agree with everything you have said on here. I am experiencing the same with my elderly parents at 475 per week for care home fees... disgraceful
    Originally posted by savvyme
    When you say you're experiencing it, do you mean you're personally paying your parents' care home fees?
    • mumps
    • By mumps 19th Dec 11, 8:41 PM
    • 5,714 Posts
    • 12,722 Thanks
    mumps
    I totally agree with everything you have said on here. I am experiencing the same with my elderly parents at 475 per week for care home fees... disgraceful
    Originally posted by savvyme
    I am a manager in care, the cost seems disgraceful to you but I promise you it is not cheap to run a good home. First of all cost of suitable premises, then registration costs, equipment including industrial washing machines (don't come cheap.) Heating costs tend to be very high. Insurance is another big expense. Staff, not just wages but CRB's training sick pay holidays etc. Food, maybe catering for special diets. Carpets, furniture etc, we find these need replacing frequently. Maintenance costs, pat testing equipment etc. Water rates, telephones, vehicle costs.

    I am sure alot of the above can be done "on the cheap" but we don't offer a "cheap" service. I can honestly say if I needed care I would be happy to go into one of the houses we run, I can't say that about all homes. We bought a home off a company offering "cheap" care. We felt like crying when we viewed the place, living in a second rate place that was stinking is not how I want to end my days and it is certainly not something I would have wanted for my parents.
    Sell 1500

    2831.00/1500
    • borkid
    • By borkid 19th Dec 11, 9:01 PM
    • 2,233 Posts
    • 4,761 Thanks
    borkid
    The trust Lisa mentions was badly drawn up. It'susual to leave the surviving spouse with access to the estate for all needs.

    I'm not talking about world cruises, but what everyone would consider reasonable.
    Originally posted by pollypenny
    Exactly this is what happens with our trust. If I remember correctly the trust only comes in to effect when one of us dies. The solicitor even advised us not to have either of our children (beneficaries) as executors as they might put undue pressure on the remaining spouse.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 19th Dec 11, 10:17 PM
    • 40,275 Posts
    • 37,712 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    Hear hear mumps!
    I am sure alot of the above can be done "on the cheap" but we don't offer a "cheap" service.
    Originally posted by mumps
    Increasingly those running 'cheap' residential homes are finding that it just can't be offered on the cheap: which is why so many are going out of business!
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  • Itismehonest
    Exactly this is what happens with our trust. If I remember correctly the trust only comes in to effect when one of us dies. The solicitor even advised us not to have either of our children (beneficaries) as executors as they might put undue pressure on the remaining spouse.
    Originally posted by borkid
    My experience of trusts is, as with most things legal, the people that benefit the most are the solicitors involved.
    • mumps
    • By mumps 19th Dec 11, 11:00 PM
    • 5,714 Posts
    • 12,722 Thanks
    mumps
    Hear hear mumps!Increasingly those running 'cheap' residential homes are finding that it just can't be offered on the cheap: which is why so many are going out of business!
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    That is true, some of them get pretty grim before they finally close down. I would like to be able to leave something to my children but I don't think they would want me to end up in some dump so that they can have some cash and to be honest with you if they did want that I don't think they deserve my money.
    Sell 1500

    2831.00/1500
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 20th Dec 11, 6:51 AM
    • 34,006 Posts
    • 68,596 Thanks
    seven-day-weekend
    What happens if someone self-funds, from the sale of their home, a place in a five-star care home of their choice and then the money runs out?
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 20th Dec 11, 8:00 AM
    • 24,109 Posts
    • 64,862 Thanks
    Pollycat
    I am a manager in care, the cost seems disgraceful to you but I promise you it is not cheap to run a good home. First of all cost of suitable premises, then registration costs, equipment including industrial washing machines (don't come cheap.) Heating costs tend to be very high. Insurance is another big expense. Staff, not just wages but CRB's training sick pay holidays etc. Food, maybe catering for special diets. Carpets, furniture etc, we find these need replacing frequently. Maintenance costs, pat testing equipment etc. Water rates, telephones, vehicle costs.

    I am sure alot of the above can be done "on the cheap" but we don't offer a "cheap" service. I can honestly say if I needed care I would be happy to go into one of the houses we run, I can't say that about all homes. We bought a home off a company offering "cheap" care. We felt like crying when we viewed the place, living in a second rate place that was stinking is not how I want to end my days and it is certainly not something I would have wanted for my parents.
    Originally posted by mumps
    When looking for a care home for my Dad earlier this year, I found some good information on the internet about what to look for in a care home.

    One ended with:
    "Ask yourself - would I be happy to live here for the rest of my life?"

    A very good point, I thought.

    @savvyme

    We (Mum and my sisters) would much rather be paying for Dad's stay in a Care home than the position we are in now - he sadly died 3 months ago.
    But we don't begrudge or regret a penny of the fees we paid.
    He was content, safe and well-looked-after.

    Do you begrudge paying (I assume the funds are coming from your partents' savings or property) for your parents to be in a care home?
  • Oldernotwiser

    Do you begrudge paying (I assume the funds are coming from your partents' savings or property) for your parents to be in a care home?
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Whilst I agree with everything you've written, it's worth pointing out that if the money's coming from the parents' savings or property, it isn't the child who is paying, even if they often talk as if that's the case!
    • midnight express
    • By midnight express 20th Dec 11, 4:09 PM
    • 1,190 Posts
    • 3,339 Thanks
    midnight express
    What happens if someone self-funds, from the sale of their home, a place in a five-star care home of their choice and then the money runs out?
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    Once their savings go below a certain level (approx 22k) they will on a means tested basis get some funding from the local authority. If it is a very expensive home the person in care or their relatives will have to pay top up fees. Sometimes the elderly person has to move to a cheaper home.

    It is worth noting that care is never fully funded as a contribution from income is always required.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 20th Dec 11, 7:18 PM
    • 31,706 Posts
    • 81,268 Thanks
    Mojisola
    It is worth noting that care is never fully funded as a contribution from income is always required.
    Originally posted by midnight express
    That's right. If you are "fully funded" all your income is taken from you except for a "personal expenses allowance" of 22.60 a week.
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