BEVs deals and information

On the question of the Zoe there's a dealer up't North who has got a batch of 9 of them (19 plate dynamique Nav R110 Z.E.) he's knocking out for £18K, battery owned. Looks like there is starting to be a bit of movement in the market: competition and a new Zoe out i would guess..

ABrass wrote: »

The Zoe looks like a very good car in its niche. Now you can buy the battery that is. For years you couldn't buy it outright and the lease cost has always been usurious.

I thought you could buy the battery, but the difference was rather large, and perhaps leases were better value for company buyers who could set it against tax. Certainly, as pointed out here, lease cars for low mileage private buyers were an appalling buy.

Interesting website shows we are keeping our cars much longer and the trend is upwards so it might be quite a while before the old ICEs work their way through the system and are replaced by BEVs.

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-age-cars-great-britain


While cars aged older than 13 years old make up only a small percentage of the total vehicle population in Greta Britain, we noticed that the number of car owners choosing to hold on to their cars beyond 13 years old has increased steadily from only 6.3% in 1994 to 18.3% in 2018. The number of cars aged 13 years old or older in Great Britain has increased more than fourfold since 1994, a dramatic rise with 5.77 million cars older than 13 on the road today.

The safety argument is a null one because Im not talking about removing any of this, just making it serviceable with a common interface.

Circuit boards aren't really servicable though, are they? I've replaced the odd blown capacitor but circuit boards aren't very servicable. An agreed standard for manufacturers to abide by, like OBD2, would be great, but I think I need to point out that BMW and Nissan, for example, don't make airbags, they buy them (and their control systems) from a handful of manufacturers.

If the overall goal was to reduce emissions and not sell new cars then part of the MOT for diesels could include DPF refresh or retrofitting dpfs/egrs/adblue to older cars and subsidise that in parallel with new car developments. 3rd parties are producing retro fit DPFs (looked at it myself for my old camper)

Just not profitable I guess for them, and it's not unique, there are third party markets for all sorts of stuff for cars, DPFs are just another one.

Low mileage diesels, make the DPF as a serviceable cheap item. Modifying them now or even looking like their modified is an MOT fail.

Are you missing the simplest explanation about all this complicated new stuff being fitted to cars - that it's just expensive? A cat contains (or used to) platinum and/or gold - how much can you reduce the cost of this?

I certainly didnt have to sign anything 12 years ago for my diesel when I ordered it, havent heard of anyone since then either.

Sure you have, I just told you about one example, and it was even pre DPF days.

The Zoe looks like a very good car in its niche. Now you can buy the battery that is. For years you couldn't buy it outright and the lease cost has always been usurious.

No, you could always, since launch, buy it outright. Just not a lot of people did, and it cost £5k-£6k more than leasing. And what do you mean niche, it's a supermini! Hardly niche!

almillar wrote: »

Circuit boards aren't really servicable though, are they? I've replaced the odd blown capacitor but circuit boards aren't very servicable. An agreed standard for manufacturers to abide by, like OBD2, would be great, but I think I need to point out that BMW and Nissan, for example, don't make airbags, they buy them (and their control systems) from a handful of manufacturers.

Most circuit boards are easily replaceable and cheap, its the fixed specific housings that are usually the problem. Again, its not the airbags themselves but the controls which are usually bespoke. My airbag ecu was in a specific sealed metal housing so without getting the drill out (which would have probably caused more damage) it was hard to tell. Screws and replacement board would have sorted it out very quickly. Even if the board was obsolete it should be easy to replace (now as we speak) with arduino etc as long as the interface is published/known. There could be a license fee for this, effectively firmware download.
As you mention about airbags, so it is with control systems but its the firmware that can be bespoke, just google replacements and you can see there are some generics (my diesel engine is used in over 10 marques, one of the reasons I bought it and like my camper, service parts can be found readily most places on earth).
My older car alarm circuit is a good example. For some unknown reason the control box was placed inside the wheel arch so with time the seals go and water gets in even without bump starting blowing it, so eventually you cant get suitable breaker yard replacements. I did eventually get one but they are paired with the main ecu so to get the sounder bit working (the alarm arms, lights flash etc, just no noise) Id have to replace the main ecu as well. If they ever make a 100% working alarm a feature of the mot then Im screwed....
At some point Im going to sit down and unsolder the processor from one board and swap it over to the other but thats a pita and I would hate to be paying someone to do it.

almillar wrote: »

Just not profitable I guess for them, and it's not unique, there are third party markets for all sorts of stuff for cars, DPFs are just another one.

3rd party stuff is based on economics. I have 3 vehicles and 2 haynes manuals for them as the third car wasnt produced in enough numbers to warrant making one. Same for replacement parts. Thats my point about making a lot of the bespoke stuff,generic from design. But that doesnt sell cars.
There have been improvements but as we both mention above with sourcing common parts this has mostly been to do with industry consolidation and cost cutting rather than any environmental credentials.

almillar wrote: »

Are you missing the simplest explanation about all this complicated new stuff being fitted to cars - that it's just expensive? A cat contains (or used to) platinum and/or gold - how much can you reduce the cost of this?

See the news for the increase in cat thefts in London!

Certain things you cant rationalise the cost, some tps for instance is no more than 10 quids worth of electronics but being supplied for up to a grand, because, again, what are you going to do?

I recently replaced the power board in a 600+ quid monitor for 14 quid, not even the capacitors, replacement board complete.

Increasingly the components are generic, its how they are put together and linked up that are bespoke (and therefore as expensive as they want to make them).

almillar wrote: »

Sure you have, I just told you about one example, and it was even pre DPF days.

Reference from well over 10 years ago, 20 years ago if a psa car... As I mention it wasnt mentioned to me 12 years ago and maybe I should have included the word 'since' at the end of my point.


I dont think we are arguing over much, there are certain things like holes in bodywork, suspension failure etc that are scrapping mot failures/safety issues but there are things which if there were the political will to fix (and reduce emissions) wouldnt take much to implement.

That doesnt sell new cars and prop up the industry/economy which brings us back full circle, all of this is based on economics/economy and very little to do with environment/pollution.