Land Registry questions

Land_Registry · 21 December 2018 at 9:24AM

mojosu wrote: »

My mortgage is finally paid off!!! :T
My bank says i need a solicitor to request my deeds and they will hold them for me.
I dont understand why I need a solicitor and why I should be paying them to hold my deeds.

Any replies welcome!

If the property is registered then the title and ownership are held by us electronically.
The original deeds are not needed to prove ownership as a result but IF you have them they are worth keeping

I assume your property may be unregistered as I can't see why a lender would make such an offer. I'm not aware any do when it's registered

G_M · 27 December 2018 at 5:49PM

mojosu wrote: »

My mortgage is finally paid off!!! :T
My bank says i need a solicitor to request my deeds and they will hold them for me.
I dont understand why I need a solicitor and why I should be paying them to hold my deeds.

Any replies welcome!

As the LR rep says: is the property registered or unregistered?

If unregistered
* the paper deeds are important. They are your proof of ownership. If they get lost or damaged you will have problems selling in the future.
* You could insist the bank returns them to you (they cannot require you to use a solicitor - those papers belong to you!) but they might charge an admin fee for doing this
* if you keep them yourself, I'd recomend getting a fireproof safe.
* Alternatively, yes, for a fee a solicitor (or bank?) will store them safely for you.
* you might want to consider voluntary 1st registration. It's not mandatory, but could simplify selling/inheriting in the future. It also makes the paper deeds less of an issue

If registered
* the paper deeds (most of them) are of historic interest only - the electronic LR deeds are what matter
* there may be amongst them an older Conveyance or other document containing covenants which are still relevant - though the LR would normally scan and store these too.
* keeping such documents, especially for an older property with a history, is a good idea, though not legally essential.

G_M · 27 December 2018 at 5:57PM

Originally Posted by G_M
I applied (form OC2) for a document mentioned in a property Title - Charges Register:
"NOTE: Copy plan to conveyance filed under MX264855."

I received a letter back (your ref: NGL120528/OC/167/KJ) from LR stating:" HM Land Registry does not normally retain a copy of a deed when information from that deed is set out in the register."

However the wording in the register is meaningless without reference to the Plan.

Does the LR not retain the Plan?If not, why not, and if so, why was it not sent?

I assume they took it as an application for a copy of the Deed itself, rather than the plan, hence the response given

The plan is not filed electronically so we would need to check whether it is in our paper records.
I can see the record of your application so I'll ask the processing office to double-check and write to you to confirm.

Hi. Thanks for your earlier help, and yes, I had a call the next day to say the Plan would be pulled out of the paper records, which would take 24 hours.

However I've heard and received nothing since.......

Land_Registry wrote: »

Odd - we are having problems with some of our services at the moment but that only affects my ability to check in what's happened here. It shouldn't have impacted on the solution itself if that was applied last week or start of this one.

I'll post again as soon as I know more - really sorry

I received the Plan eventually once it was pulled from your paper store and scanned. Thanks again.

However I've now received a cheque for £7.00 which I assume is a refund based on the initial decision that no document could be found/sent!

Since you have supplied the Plan, I am shredding the cheque, not cashing it.

Kindly inform the relevant department.

Oh! And have a good New Year!

Grantlf420 · 27 December 2018 at 8:21PM

Hi Land registry, sorry. I haven’t got the upto date title info but the last request made on the property was for a TP1 and that title number was VA1535F... not sure if that helps?

Thanks

Emilybutt12 · 29 December 2018 at 1:22PM

Hi,
Apologies if this isn't the right forum. My husband and his brother bought a property 7 years ago with the title deeds in both names, although the deposit and all mortgage payments have been made by my husband. The current mortgage deal (which is solely in my husband's name) has come to an end so we're looking at remortgaging, but all banks have said the title deed name(s) and mortgage name(s) have to match. My brother in law lives and works in China so can't be added onto the mortgage. Therefore we are looking at removing him (to which he has agreed) from the title deeds. My understanding is that we need to complete the TP1, AP1 and ID1 forms, can this be completed by ourselves or do we need to go through a solicitor?

Second part, which I realise isn't land registry but someone may know the answer or point me in the right direction, is the mortgage currently stands at £195,000. Again my understanding is that no stamp duty needs to be paid as my brother in law is transferring his 50% share of that ie £97,500 which is less than the £125,000 SDLT bracket, and no money is being exchanged. Or is this not the case as the mortgage is solely in my husband's name or because he also owns a buy to let property? As I said I'm aware this isn't the right forum but hoping I might be pointed in the right direction.

Thanks

G_M · 29 December 2018 at 1:37PM

Emilybutt12 wrote: »

Hi,
Apologies if this isn't the right forum. My husband and his brother bought a property 7 years ago with the title deeds in both names, although the deposit and all mortgage payments have been made by my husband. The current mortgage deal (which is solely in my husband's name) has come to an end so we're looking at remortgaging, but all banks have said the title deed name(s) and mortgage name(s) have to match. My brother in law lives and works in China so can't be added onto the mortgage. Therefore we are looking at removing him (to which he has agreed) from the title deeds. My understanding is that we need to complete the TP1, AP1 and ID1 forms, can this be completed by ourselves or do we need to go through a solicitor?
TP1 is only used if you are splitting the property up and selling part of it. (hence TP1 = 'Transfer of Part").
You need TR1 ("Transfer of whole") as yu are transfering ownership of the whole property.

Second part, which I realise isn't land registry but someone may know the answer or point me in the right direction, is the mortgage currently stands at £195,000. Again my understanding is that no stamp duty needs to be paid as my brother in law is transferring his 50% share of that ie £97,500 which is less than the £125,000 SDLT bracket, and no money is being exchanged. Or is this not the case as the mortgage is solely in my husband's name or because he also owns a buy to let property? As I said I'm aware this isn't the right forum but hoping I might be pointed in the right direction.

Thanks

I'm less sure of the SDLT, but :
Is the property which is being sold your husband's main residence? If not, then as he is buying a 2nd property and not replacig his main home, the additional 3% SDLT applies.

As the transfer will involve redeeming the existing mortgage and taking out a new one, presumably for £125,000, I believe SDLT will be based on that amount.

Emilybutt12 · 29 December 2018 at 9:00PM

Thanks for the reply. We are not selling the property, merely removing my brother in law from the title deeds and in essence transferring his half to my husband, hence thinking TP1 is the correct form as we're not selling the whole property.

In terms of SDLT the mortgage for the whole property is currently £195,000 (currently only in my husband's name), and that's what the new mortgage will be. So I'm unsure what the £125,000 you've mentioned is referring to. What I'm unsure about is whether SDLT is based on £0 as the mortgage isn't in my brother in law's name, or £97,500 as that's half of the current mortgage value.

Thanks

Mikes_Saving · 30 December 2018 at 12:34PM

Hi,
I'm currently in limbo between my local council and the company they have sold my lease to.
My house was built in 1962, it's leasehold and until recently I paid £12 a year to my local council. Appx 5 years ago they sold the Lease to a company that I now make this payment to.
During this transaction, I exercised my right to purchase the Freehold and paid the new company to buy the Freehold and have it transferred into my name, but I am now locked in an ongoing battle to have this completed.
The problem appears to be that when the local Town Council was subsumed by the Borough Council c1972, documentation of showing Freehold ownership was 'mislaid/lost' and only the record of the establishment of a 'Header Lease' exists.
Because of this, the new company have found (they tell me) that they are unable to transfer the Freehold to me as they don't own it (it appears they thought they did) and they are unable to establish who does. They have spoken to the Council who state that they now have 'no interest' in the matter since they have sold there interest to the new company and have no record of the Freeholder themselves.
I have done searches via the Land Registry and via the Bona Vacantia Division who tell me they have record of the freehold transfer back to the Council in 1964 but not the related documentation. They state that unless there is record of the Freehold having been sold in the interim period (which seems unlikely given that the recent sale to the new company), the Freehold remains with the Council.
I have 2 questions:
How can I unlock this impasse? The two organisations I'm dealing with have a vested interest in ignoring me, which they have been very good at for for several years! I managed to persuade my home insurance company that this was a dispute under the terms of my insurance and they have agreed to release limited funds with which they appointed Solicitors who (in Sept '18) have written on my behalf to the Council and PSP, but with no response (beyond the situation outlined above) to date.
Secondly:
Given that the land is not registered, can I make an application to register it directly with the land registry? I have lived in the property for 22 years.

Any advice would be very welcome at this stage!

G_M · 30 December 2018 at 3:37PM

Emilybutt12 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. We are not selling the property, merely removing my brother in law from the title deeds and in essence transferring his half to my husband, hence thinking TP1 is the correct form as we're not selling the whole property.

Thanks

No. You are transferring ownership of the whole property from the original owners (two of them), to a single owner (who happens to be one of the two originals - but that is irrelevant). Ownership of the whole property is being transferred.

If you were physically dividing the property into two (eg into 2 separate flats), and transfering ownership of one of the two halves, then you would use TP1.

In terms of SDLT the mortgage for the whole property is currently £195,000 (currently only in my husband's name), and that's what the new mortgage will be. So I'm unsure what the £125,000 you've mentioned is referring to. What I'm unsure about is whether SDLT is based on £0 as the mortgage isn't in my brother in law's name, or £97,500 as that's half of the current mortgage value.

Typo. Sorry.

I meant £195,000 as that is the amount of the new mortgage which your husband will take out.

The existing mortgage in 2 names will be paid off and a new mortgage for £195K taken out in your husband's sole name - hence SDLT based on that.

I think. Happy to be corrected by any SDLT experts though.

Emilybutt12 · 30 December 2018 at 9:45PM

G_M wrote: »

No. You are transferring ownership of the whole property from the original owners (two of them), to a single owner (who happens to be one of the two originals - but that is irrelevant). Ownership of the whole property is being transferred.

If you were physically dividing the property into two (eg into 2 separate flats), and transfering ownership of one of the two halves, then you would use TP1.

Typo. Sorry.

I meant £195,000 as that is the amount of the new mortgage which your husband will take out.

The existing mortgage in 2 names will be paid off and a new mortgage for £195K taken out in your husband's sole name - hence SDLT based on that.

I think. Happy to be corrected by any SDLT experts though.

Thank you for your reply. Sorry my understanding was that as we were only transferring my BILs part it counted as 'part' rather than whole. I now follow you. So if he were to transfer it to me, it still remains as 'whole' transfer.

In terms of SDLT the current mortgage is just in my husbands name. But from what I've read if transferring property then as my BIL and my husband are tenants in common on the deeds, the mortgage is technically 50% his, so my husband is only gaining £97,500 (although it is currently solely in his name). I do realise that this is more geared towards lawyers/accountatns but with the Christmas period it is not the most conducive time of year for getting hold of them, so I'm trying to glean as much information as possible before then, to go in armed with a better understanding.

Thank you for your help.

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

Land Registry questions

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free