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No, the contract only includes the sale of the contents specified in it - it doesn't give the buyer the ownership of additional items left behind.
We are talking about a garden. You can't come back and take plants out of a garden after completion. There is a section of the sales information where you say what you are not including in the sale. So unless all of these plants are listed on that if they are left in the garden they become the new owners plants?
If you sign to say that you are giving vacant possession you give vacant possession you don't ask the new owners if you can leave stuff on the premises to pick up at your convenience you move that stuff into storage before completion if you have to.
I don't understand where this entitlement to use other people's houses and gardens as free storage has come from.0 -
Cakeguts, everyone knows they're not entitled to leave things behind, that's why they've asked.
That's how favours work. If you don't want to allow it, you say no.0 -
ThePants999 wrote: »Unless, y'know, you ASK, and they say yes. I don't understand why you think it's so unreasonable when this was done with the agreement of the new owners. Obviously it would be totally out of line to do it without asking, or if they'd said no, but they said yes. That effectively modifies the contract that you value so highly.
The point I am making is that you have no right to ask. Why does anyone think that it is alright to ask someone if they can store things they don't have room for in someone else's garden. I wouldn't even ask a friend to do this. Why should they?
If I was selling a house I would expect the buyer to want to be able to access all parts of their property without having someone else's stuff being there.
Your buyers are not your parents or relatives. They may say yes just to be nice but no one leaving stuff behind to pick up later can honestly believe that they are not being selfish?0 -
Of course I understand!
Trouble is everyone is so blooming snowflake-y today that gentlemens' agreements count for nothing and nobody trusts anyone else.
Years ago we purchased a house - actually a 3500 sq ft Victorian house that had been converted to four flats in the 1950s/60s which was how it was when we purchased intending to convert it back to a family home - where the vendor, a slum landlord type, living in the USA, decided to leave fifty-seven large items of furniture in the property (think double wardrobes, sideboards etc) on completion. Call us naive idiots, but we sucked it up and got a sledge hammer, a skip and did several runs to the dump/bonfires rather than pursue via our solicitor. It was actually rather fun.
We are obviously fools, but there you go!
Our buyers have messed us about from day one of the process but as we are selling a house that is uniquely suited to them, again we have accepted this.
In return - because they know that as a result of their actions we have missed out on several equally unique properties - they have offered us the option to leave our planters here. The garden is around 0.25 acre. They do not intend to move in immediately as they will continue to live in their other house till some works have been completed on this one. No-one is being inconvenienced. No-one will die. It's a first world issue.
As for the other people at our previous house 'lost the ability to use of part of their garden'!!! Again, it was a huge garden - 0.3 acre - and our three pots were barely noticeable. FGS!
Funnily enough, you suggest removing them before completion day - we actually did that too, on a previous move. I'm guessing you wouldn't approve of that either - because on that occasion the vendors offered us the option of moving half our furniture/garden items into the property we were buying between exchange and completion.
They (shock, horror!) gave us a set of keys and we came and went as we liked. No mortgage. No lenders to satisfy. Empty property being sold by a couple who had moved in with her mum on her farm. We got contents as well as buildings insurance from exchange. The house - thatched, as it happens - didn't burn down. Our stuff - antiques, mainly - was safe.
These were/are rural/semi-rural communities where things are still done the old way. No snowflakes here.Mortgage-free for fourteen years!
Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed0 -
I probably should have replied to this instead of the post I previously quoted... never mind.You were totally in the wrong here. You shouldn't even have asked. People need to understand that once they have sold a house they are not entitled to leave anything there that they want even if the new owners say yes. The house outbuildings garage and anything else has to be vacant of all the sellers things on completion. That is what you signed to say that you were agreeing to do in the contract.
The contract is a legal document and agreement that you won't leave things in the house or outbuildings. You signed to say you would give vacant possession and then you decided to go back on that legal document and ask the new owners if you could not give them vacant possession.
Why did you sign the contract if you had no intention of keeping your side of it?
The contract is a standard one that's the starting point for every single property sale in the country. It's not some holy bible of conveyancing, some divinely ordained document that defines what is right. Vacant possession is an eminently sensible default assumption and makes for the cleanest transaction. But if both parties are happy to make an exception to it, to allow some stuff to be temporarily stored, who's to say that's not OK?
Now, once they've both agreed it's OK, what's more sensible:
(a) pay the solicitors god knows what hourly rate to draft a custom amendment, review it, agree it, run it past the mortgage lender, advise their clients on its implications
or
(b) make an informal agreement between them?
I know which I'd pick.
And you also have a strange idea about entitlement. You don't have to consider yourself entitled to something, to ask for it. It's perfectly acceptable to ask for a favour, just as it's perfectly acceptable for the other person to decline. I don't know where you get this idea that it's morally wrong to even ASK.
Our vendors performed a couple of acts of kindness for us during our transaction that they weren't obliged to do. Consequently, we're still performing some for them, like forwarding mail from organisations they forgot to notify of their change of address, instead of returning everything to sender. The world's a better place when people step outside the letter of contracts and legalities to help each other out.0 -
We are talking about a garden. You can't come back and take plants out of a garden after completion. There is a section of the sales information where you say what you are not including in the sale. So unless all of these plants are listed on that if they are left in the garden they become the new owners plants?
If you sign to say that you are giving vacant possession you give vacant possession you don't ask the new owners if you can leave stuff on the premises to pick up at your convenience you move that stuff into storage before completion if you have to.
I don't understand where this entitlement to use other people's houses and gardens as free storage has come from.
These are plants in pots/planters.......not those planted in the ground!
The property fixtures/fittings form we filled out clearly stated that all plants in planters were not included.
I don't get where all this lack of flexibility comes from!Mortgage-free for fourteen years!
Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed0 -
phoebe1989seb wrote: »Of course I understand!
Trouble is everyone is so blooming snowflake-y today that gentlemens' agreements count for nothing and nobody trusts anyone else.
Years ago we purchased a house - actually a 3500 sq ft Victorian house that had been converted to four flats in the 1950s/60s which was how it was when we purchased intending to convert it back to a family home - where the vendor, a slum landlord type, living in the USA, decided to leave fifty-seven large items of furniture in the property (think double wardrobes, sideboards etc) on completion. Call us naive idiots, but we sucked it up and got a sledge hammer, a skip and did several runs to the dump/bonfires rather than pursue via our solicitor. It was actually rather fun.
We are obviously fools, but there you go!
Our buyers have messed us about from day one of the process but as we are selling a house that is uniquely suited to them, again we have accepted this.
In return - because they know that as a result of their actions we have missed out on several equally unique properties - they have offered us the option to leave our planters here. The garden is around 0.25 acre. They do not intend to move in immediately as they will continue to live in their other house till some works have been completed on this one. No-one is being inconvenienced. No-one will die. It's a first world issue.
As for the other people at our previous house 'lost the ability to use of part of their garden'!!! Again, it was a huge garden - 0.3 acre - and our three pots were barely noticeable. FGS!
Funnily enough, you suggest removing them before completion day - we actually did that too, on a previous move. I'm guessing you wouldn't approve of that either - because on that occasion we were offered the option of moving half our furniture/garden items into the property we were buying between exchange and completion.
They (shock, horror!) gave us a set of keys and we came and went as we liked. No mortgage. No lenders to satisfy. Empty property being sold by a couple who had moved in with her mum on her farm. We got contents as well as buildings insurance from exchange. The house - thatched, as it happens - didn't burn down. Our stuff - antiques, mainly - was safe.
These were/are rural/semi-rural communities where things are still done the old way. No snowflakes here.
I understand that but on here there are people who will take advantage of others. There are people on here who don't empty their houses before completion takes place this does inconvenience people and it would just be all so much simpler if people just took everything out before completion so that that was the normal way of doing things and people didn't leave stuff behind to pick up later.
Some people will say yes just to be nice. If that happens then they are being taken advantage of. Leaving stuff behind should be the absolute exception not something that people feel that they can ask to happen and certainly not something that buyers should feel that they have to offer because they are nice people.
Do you not think that your buyers would be just as happy if you removed the plants before completion?
I assume that you will be paying your buyers for the rent of their garden with something to the value of the storage costs you have saved?0 -
All I can hear is: 'are you stupid enough to provide free storage, guard my stuff, keep out of the garage in case you damage something, provide me with access when I want it, let my relative/friend/dodgy acquaintance in at their convenience....ad infinitum......'.
For all you know it could be something dodgy you are taking care of0 -
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All I can hear is: 'are you stupid enough to provide free storage, guard my stuff, keep out of the garage in case you damage something, provide me with access when I want it, let my relative/friend/dodgy acquaintance in at their convenience....ad infinitum......'.
For all you know it could be something dodgy you are taking care of
Is it me? Am I going even more bonkers? I wouldn't dream of asking a buyer if I could go round and pick up something I had left behind later. I just wouldn't want to expect someone who wasn't a friend or relative to want to put themselves out like that. To me that would be really selfish on my part that I hadn't arranged my affairs in order not to impact on anyone else.
It really makes me wonder about the mindset of the person thinking that doing this is alright.
As you say if they don't mind putting other people out they could leave absolutely anything in the garage.0
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