87 year old Stairlift turned down by Council, need help in appeal

spadoosh · 27 February 2019 at 5:50PM

peterbaker wrote: »

So that's two of you plus a few hangers on who want an answer to that one? Well here it is: Pretty screwed up values if you believe it serves a public good to force out someone 87 years old who has her husband's ashes buried in the garden and knows no other home in the last few decades ...

Its pretty screwed up values denying a family a home though no? The issue we do have and are faced with is making that decision.

I get the impression that this scenario is somewhat personal hence your passion. What i would ask from you though is to remove as much passion as you can.

The problem we have is that we have one person who live in a home that isnt suitable for her and we have a family that dont live in any home suitable for them. So the present situaton is that no one is living somewhere suitable.

Now the council have to make a decision. Either spend a good amount of money to install a stair lift or two for this lady to make one home suitable and still have no other home suitable for the family. Or they could tell (encourage/force whatever) her to take a house that is more suitable for her needs (not desires, the council has no obligation to meet peoples desires like remaining near ashes) and give the house suitable for a family to a family.

It seems like theres a lot of issues here that the lady couldve prevented too. There appears to be little in the way of planning for her old age. More or less everyone knows you become less mobile as you age and coordination tales off too. This coupled with stairs is why a massive proportion of the elderly have trips and falls on a pretty frequent basis. If i remember correctly its one of the biggest killers of the elderly. I can only assume this lady thought she would be immune or planned to die before such a time. That was a mistake.

She then chose to bury ashes in her garden. Dont get me wrong you can do what you want with dead peoples ashes as far as im concerned but if you do want somewhere to go to id strongly advise against doing it in a garden. What would happen if she went in to a care home? I doubt the new occupants would be willing to accommodate visits. And what about further family and relatives once the lady dies? I get theres probably reasons for it like maybe he really loved his garden. I think a consequence of that though should be them willing to accept that they might have to leave the house some day and thus no longer have access.

Ive got no intention of being mean or heartless to the lady. The problem for me is you seem to suggest that i should be happy to pay for this ladies wants directly at the expense of mine. Im putting away for my retirement so i dont have to rely on state subsidised accommodation. Im putting money away so i can pay for a funeral and remembrance plaque. Im putting money away so that i can fund the costs typically associated with old age in my retirement. So im doing all the things that it doesnt seem that this lady has done and also being asked to pay because this lady hasnt done those things. Thats pretty screwed up. Your asking me to sacrifice my ability to be able to afford a stairlift in my privately owned home to pay for a stair lift in someone elses house which isnt owned by her, which is more suitable for other people, because she buried her husbands ashes in the garden.

I do everything in my power to not be reliant on the state. Its exactly for these reasons, because ultimately thigns that can have a massive impact on your life are effectively put in to tick boxes. When the day comes that you dont tick enough boxes youre on your own. These are not my rules. These are rules that change on political whim. Ideally they wouldnt and ideally there would be infinite money so everyone can have everything but thats not the world we live in. I just play to reality not to what i wish or want things to be.

calleyw · 27 February 2019 at 6:12PM

And most people who own their own home once it gets too much sell up and down size to more appropriate accommodation.

I am with the council on this. Appropriate accommodation is available. Don't get why people get so attached to houses. And seem to think the memories live in the building. No they live in your head.

And before anyone says I have no idea. Well I do my husband had a stroke at 43. And was unable to climb stairs for a while. Also needed hand rails etc put in before he could get up stairs. So we had to live/sleep down stairs for a couple of months. If he could never have climbed stairs we would have to sell and find somewhere that fitted his needs. And not go to the council asking for a stair lift.

Also if I was relative I would be encouraging them to move to somewhere with no stairs. As I don't fancy coming in one day to find them sprawled at the bottom of the stairs.

Yours

Calley x

Doom_and_Gloom · 27 February 2019 at 6:42PM

I'm with those that say a family home should be freed up and given the opportunity to go to a family who may desperately need it. They had the option but are now refusing it to someone else. These are council places and as such should be lived in by those that need them in the capacity they have. One elderly woman who can't use the stairs in a family home competently is not doing the home justice.

On top of that I am disabled, I use a wheelchair more often than not now. Although I use crutches at home my OH has recently moved furniture around knowing I am getting worse and may need the wheelchair at home also soon. We've prepared for this in advance.
We rent a ground floor flat to make things as seamless as possible. I would hate for there to be an emergency, such as a fire, and be reliant on someone to come and get me as I am unable to use stairs if we lived in a place with lift on the 1st or higher floors!
Sorry but I honestly think living in a place that is unsuitable but made 'suitable' by a chair lift given everything is a non starter. Emergency personel getting her down the stairs after a fall or due to an emergency is not a great idea.

Stop thinking of the emotions behind the home. Think would you really want them to die in a fire as they can't get out or die in said fire as they fall down the stairs trying to get down the stairs and fall and die before emergency personnel get there though inhalation of smoke and/or burning (you can't use stair lifts in the case of fires after all)?

peterbaker · 28 February 2019 at 12:26AM

calleyw wrote: »

And most people who own their own home once it gets too much sell up and down size to more appropriate accommodation.

Most people? Oh right. And they do that aged 87 when they are already vulnerable and reluctant to move away from familiar surroundings, do they? Sorry, I had no idea that was what most people did.

I am with the council on this. Appropriate accommodation is available. Don't get why people get so attached to houses. And seem to think the memories live in the building. No they live in your head.

Like your ideas? - perhaps they could stay there a bit longer or are they no longer able to contain themselves?

And before anyone says I have no idea. Well I do my husband had a stroke at 43. And was unable to climb stairs for a while. Also needed hand rails etc put in before he could get up stairs. So we had to live/sleep down stairs for a couple of months. If he could never have climbed stairs we would have to sell and find somewhere that fitted his needs. And not go to the council asking for a stair lift.

I am truly sorry to read that your husband had a stroke at such and early age. However, 43 is less than half 87 and it would appear you had a choice and no-one forced you to do anything? Whilst I very much appreciate how strokes can be extremely serious, I trust that your husband made a prompt and as full a recovery as possible.

Also if I was relative I would be encouraging them to move to somewhere with no stairs. As I don't fancy coming in one day to find them sprawled at the bottom of the stairs.

Why would they be sprawled at the bottom of the stairs? - Oh sorry - yes, now I remember - the stairs were too much and the local authority who are responsible for adult social care in one department refused a stairlift as a means to force the elderly tenant out against their wishes, and to free up a larger house for the housing department. So they would be blameless, right?:o

elsien · 28 February 2019 at 12:29AM

Just wondering why she needs a wetroom when a walk in shower is cheaper and quicker to install?

Doom_and_Gloom · 28 February 2019 at 1:53AM

peterbaker wrote: »

Why would they be sprawled at the bottom of the stairs? - Oh sorry - yes, now I remember - the stairs were too much and the local authority who are responsible for adult social care in one department refused a stairlift as a means to force the elderly tenant out against their wishes, and to free up a larger house for the housing department. So they would be blameless, right?:o

I will refer you to my post #26. It's not safe to use a stairlift in the case of fire for example. Yes this may be extreme however life happens. You either stay in the home and wait for help that may not arrive in time or you take a chance and go down the stairs even if you know it's not safe as it could end up as your best chance.
Better for everyone is to be in a suitable home for your circumstances.

As others have pointed out a wet room in a family home is a waste of a conversion, or addition while losing a different room. Most families want a bath for their children while young, or even for themselves to relax in. On the other hand the loss of a room for the wet room would mean less living space for a family in future. Either way a loss on the home for what is a selfish want now when there are other, and arguably better, options such as a ground floor flat, bungalow or even sheltered housing.

Safety of the individual in all of this should be a priority and not emotions.
There is also the fact that this council home would be better suited to a family who would need no, costly, changes to it.

Cheeky_Monkey · 28 February 2019 at 1:35PM

I still think that an appeal is highly likely to be unsuccessful. The Council will probably just wait for her to die or be forced to go into a care home rather than spend money on installing a stairlift and wet room into a family home currently occupied by only one person.

peterbaker · 28 February 2019 at 11:21PM

That sums up typical council thinking quite nicely this time Cheeky.

They can't be a$$ed to "care".

The pseudo-authoratitive nonsense suggested about enhanced fire risk leads me to wonder whether this council has yet offerd this particular 87 year old a Telecare system or similar linked to smoke alarms and a worn round the neck panic alarm button as part of the same system? Probably not since councils seem to have reneged recently on non-means tested existing elderly in their care and their telephone staff even suggest cancelling the service if existing free users do not wish to pay £15 per month for systems already installed free long ago.

Local authorities simply do not care and do not know how to care but employ hoards of expensive deflection script trained plonkers yet all with the word "care" implicit in the names of their departments.

Cyclamen · 1 March 2019 at 11:14AM

I had to downsize from a 3 bed house with stairs to a smaller bungalow and it took some mental effort and physical support. I hated it at first and couldn't get my head round it.. but now I love my bungalow and am really happy to not have stairs and have everything with shorter walking distances.
I didn't have a choice much like this lady..but was early 30's and homeowner I just couldn't make the bills and mortgage after getting ill.

I tried a stair lift .. self funded, refurbished and found it really quite painful, a good make but they do shake and rattle if sensitive, you need a steady grip it would cut out as i moved my hand and dexterity for seat belt etc. It wasn't for me.

Some ideas..
Is there a local Independent Living Centre where she can test drive a stair lift to see if it is the right thing for her.. I don't mean that to sound patronising but it wasn't the answer for me. If she then found them useful i would suggest looking at ebay and self funding.. i assume she gets attendance allowance. My council would have given me a stair lift in 2010 but the wait was 3.5 years.

Are there any positives to a smaller, ground floor place.. such as closer to family, community group shop etc.. that would actually give her more independence and a better quality of life.

As for the ashes.. drastic but if they were scattered under a specific plant.. dig up a patch of the flower bed and make a planter for her.

What ever you and your Mum choose I wish you well. Sadly councils just do not have the funding and there are many people with similar wants and many more with basic needs going unmet.

KxMx · 1 March 2019 at 12:22PM

Post #20 is quite correct, even if you decide to self fund a stair lift you'll still need the Landlords permission, in this case the Council who have already refused one way and may well refuse again.

That also doesn't solve the issue of her needing a wet room. Which would almost certainly be refused if you tried via self funding.

87 year old Stairlift turned down by Council, need help in appeal

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