007 Cops given licence to kill?

24

Comments

  • k3lvc
    k3lvc Posts: 4,174 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    fridae wrote: »
    do you have experience of working with young coppers? I have, 20 years.

    Yes - but given we're both anonymous on here you'll have to trust that my view is as informed and valid as yours.

    Maybe in specific densely populated areas with easy access to NPAS/backup and a lower CPS threshold things can be managed differently. In the other 95% of the country things can carry on just as they are
  • robin58
    robin58 Posts: 2,802 Forumite
    Did not know there were MI6 cops chasing people on the roads, in marked police cars.

    As always Mr Fridae from Tunbridge Wells is upset.

    Will not be signing anything which deceives the campaign reason in its title.
    The more I live, the more I learn.
    The more I learn, the more I grow.
    The more I grow, the more I see.
    The more I see, the more I know.
    The more I know, the more I see,
    How little I know.!! ;)
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    fridae wrote: »
    They were freedom of information statistics, they tend to take a while to be released. What are today's statistics? By all accounts they are much worse and as such the police need to be reigned in. ...

    They're there if you care to look for them.

    Doesn't excuse you being nine years behind the times.
    fridae wrote: »
    ...
    But before you speak you should read the petition as it covers all the negative remarks on this forum. Oh, sorry you can't see it can you? This site won't publish urls

    Well, that's not my fault now, is it? Besides, you could always copy and paste the text of the petition if you wanted to. And then all those so called negative remarks would be covered.
  • Enterprise_1701C
    Enterprise_1701C Posts: 23,409 Forumite
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    Yes, I accept we cannot see the details of your petition.

    Regardless, there is no way on this earth I would sign something that would stop the Police getting the protection that I believe they should have. They need to be able to give chase without having to think about what they do for fear of being prosecuted.

    The same protection should be given to our armed forces, indeed to anyone that protects us.

    Yes, there are bad eggs in anything, and provision should be made for that, but would you want to do a job where you have to wonder if you will be prosecuted if you actually do the job?
    What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare
  • Tallaght
    Tallaght Posts: 1,632 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post
    A lot of police car and bike chases get called off in pursuit as the chase would be a dangerous to the public.
  • fridae
    fridae Posts: 35 Forumite
    The Law, Guidance and Training Governing Police Pursuits: Current Position and Proposals for Change


    To: The Rt Hon Nick Hurd MP Minister of State for Policing and the Fire Service


    The above is a Government released paper in .pdf (portable document format), which can be downloaded at: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/police-pursuits. In my view that document reads as: The Government is seriously considering a proposal to offer Carte Blanche protection to police officers to drive carelessly and dangerously and recklessly in pursuits and responses free from prosecution. And it has the support of an ex Labour MP.



    [!!!8230;] A plan to offer greater legal protection to police drivers when pursuing suspects has been welcomed by Merseyside!!!8217;s Police and Crime Commissioner... Jane Kennedy [...] Read the full story in The Challenge, issue 372, June 2018, page 18 - News desk: 0151 706-7411. https://www.thechallenge.co.uk



    I feel this to be an ill-conceived and dangerous proposal and I would argue licence of this nature holds constant threats for us and our children; and yet, inconceivably, the UK Government is seriously considering it has merit and there are strong clues that those behind the proposal mean to see it successfully passed in to law*.


    Why is this important?



    Throughout this instrument I shall offer logical argument for my observations gained by years of experience working as a probation officer on Merseyside, observing the macho attitudes of young males both in and out of uniform supporting my view that the proposal is dangerous and, which convinces me that failure to have it rejected will result in a high probability of injury and death. Therefore, I would implore that you support the petition to reject the proposal before: 12:00 on Monday 13th August 2018, the deadline people have to complete the Likert type (participants can only chose from options provided) questionnaire.



    I feel the choice of a *Likert questionnaire has enabled the compilers to manipulate the responses and adds to my belief that the whole document is biased and was constructed to influence and produce a certain view; which skillfully and no doubt was compiled in a manner that was meant to discourages one from taking another view. I feel the questionnaire consists of questions that are for the most part irrelevant and apparently written in Lawyer Double Speak. Please compare your observations and remarks to the 6 questions in the questionnaire, to my responses below:



    (1) I think this is asking: should we fix something that isn!!!8217;t broke? I strongly disagree

    (2) I think this is asking: if a police offer drives aggressively, causing another to have an accident is the police officer responsible? I strongly agree

    (3) I think this is asking: should police drive carefully at all times? I strongly agree
    (4) What does this even mean? (5) This, I feel, is a loaded question. A police officer should always drive carefully.
    (6) I think this is fairly obvious. No changes are necessary



    The way things stand at the moment, a police officer driving a motor vehicle in pursuit of another motor vehicle and a police officer driving a motor vehicle in response to a call to what might be a serious incident is not instructed nor expected to drive carelessly or dangerously or recklessly and takes it upon himself or herself and assumes sole responsibility should he or she choose to drive carelessly or dangerously or recklessly and if that careless, dangerous, reckless driving causes an accident (resulting in damage, death or injury to any member of the public including the driver of the vehicle being pursued) or causes another vehicle to have an accident, regardless of circumstances that might have contributed to the accident, or the severity of the accident, the police officer who caused the accident is fully aware s/he will have no protection in law and will bear alone the consequences of his or her actions.



    I feel strongly that the proposed changes to the law will remove the little restraint that exists and encourage dangerous driving, therefore it is imperative that the proposed change to law is successfully challenged and overcome for if not there exists a great probability of loss of life. I say this advisedly with over 20 years of observations of attitudes young macho police officers have displayed when feeling nobody was in earshot.



    This proposal appears to naively view police officers as automatons that will keep to the letter of the law and not be tempted to circumvent the law and certainly not brazenly abuse it. Young police officers are subject to the urges of all young people. I am not discounting young female police officers, however, young male police officers like any young men become hyped-up on testosterone in exciting circumstances and talk of: !!!8220;I got a buzz, I was on his tail, pushing the little f**ker hard.!!!8221; !!!8220;I tried to flip the c**t.!!!8221; !!!8220;I!!!8217;d had about five pints that night when we got the shout, f**k me, was I ready for some fun.!!!8221; These remarks made by young male police officers (waiting to be called as witnesses in court) along with many more are not uncommon to my ears.



    One of the great failings in any organization that relies on a regimented, structured system is that the ones at the top have no idea what is going on at the bottom. Chief officers might give out with directives and orders, but when, if and how those orders and directives are complied with is another story. The police force, to the public, presents as a service of tolerance and equality, when in effect my experience is that of a male dominated, racist and bullying system where one is intimidated to go along with the status-quo (and women have to be one-of-the boys) because if not !!!8211; they just might find that nobody comes to their rescue the next time they find themselves in danger, alone and needing help.



    Although the current way in which officers are used to dealing with !!!8216;chases !!!8216; is less than perfect and still offers dangers to the public it would seem reasonable to assume that any damage resulting from these chases will be relatively minor - compared to a system where all restraints have been removed - as the knowledge that one is on one!!!8217;s own helps to keep excitement in check. Or as Freud might have put it: the Superego ensures the Ego controls the Id; but should the proposed changes be accepted then the equilibrium maintaining Superego will be removed from the equation entirely as the Ego becomes massacred by the enormous Id.
  • robin58
    robin58 Posts: 2,802 Forumite
    One question I would like to ask.

    A member of your family has been murdered.

    The police won't give chase because they may hurt someone if they chase them.

    Somehow I think your view would be different at that time.
    The more I live, the more I learn.
    The more I learn, the more I grow.
    The more I grow, the more I see.
    The more I see, the more I know.
    The more I know, the more I see,
    How little I know.!! ;)
  • Enterprise_1701C
    Enterprise_1701C Posts: 23,409 Forumite
    Photogenic First Anniversary First Post Mortgage-free Glee!
    There is one thing that will stop then driving unnecessarily recklessly. Fear of self harm.

    The sooner that the police can give chase without unnecessary fear of prosecution the better, do you seriously think that the criminals drive carefully?

    I have long thought that the police are trying to do their job with their hands tied behind their back. At least this way they will have one hand released.
    What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare
  • k3lvc
    k3lvc Posts: 4,174 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    I can't be arsed to quote all the OP's latest post but far from persuading me to support his cause it's encouraging me to look at opposing campaigns to give support - not quite going to plan is it OP ?
  • Enterprise_1701C
    Enterprise_1701C Posts: 23,409 Forumite
    Photogenic First Anniversary First Post Mortgage-free Glee!
    k3lvc wrote: »
    I can't be arsed to quote all the OP's latest post but far from persuading me to support his cause it's encouraging me to look at opposing campaigns to give support - not quite going to plan is it OP ?

    Can you let me know if you find any please.
    What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare
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