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  • FIRST POST
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 23rd Jan 16, 10:55 AM
    • 64Posts
    • 82Thanks
    bingaling
    Distrust of Co-Executor plus Capital Gains Tax query
    • #1
    • 23rd Jan 16, 10:55 AM
    Distrust of Co-Executor plus Capital Gains Tax query 23rd Jan 16 at 10:55 AM
    Any guidance, advice and help would be greatly appreciated. My Father recently passed away leaving his estate 50/50 to my sister and I. He appointed my sisters husband and my husband to be executors of his will. My sister was POA due to Dad's physical decline (which I was OK with as my sister would only been able to act upon his instructions…. I hope..). Prior to Dad dying, he explained to me that his finances were quite complicated as he had stocks/shares/trusts and bonds and quite a few bank and saving accounts gained through his 85 years of life.

    My problem is that since Dads death, my sister has been moving my Dad's money here and there and said she was paying this and that, this was all stated in phone calls. She also stated that Probate was not required. My husband, being executor, requested a spreadsheet of the estate from my sister. To say the least, she absolutely hit the roof. My husband is taking his responsibilities very seriously in honour of my Dad. When he stated to my sister that POA ended at date of death, and that he and her husband were responsible, again, another outburst. My husband spoke with the other executor and my husband requested that the two of them to open an executors bank account. This was carried out following a long list of obstructions from sister. From the cash assets (values not known by us), my sister, immediately wanted to pay out the cash bequests which happen to be for her children. My husband requested that no payments be made, apart from debts, until a reasonable amount of time had passed to ensure there was enough cash to pay debts before the bequests.

    The joint executor bank account was eventually opened, which, my sister wanted closed immediately as she said it was not adequate and requested that we used her husbands bank account.

    Through constant obstructions regarding the account (a basic bank account with no credit) and my husband responding to every obstruction proving that it was indeed adequate, they went ahead and obtained internet access. Once my sister had got into the internet account, she was finally satisfied that it was OK. However, the estate payments coming in are first going into my sisters husbands account, then, transferred into the joint account which I find questionable.

    Due to my sisters behaviour and consequently the distrust arising from this, and numerous requests for the estate statement, my husband informed them that he would instruct a solicitor. Again my sister hit the roof and finally we received a spreadsheet with the assets and liabilities and payments she had made, together with a disclaimer that the values are not accurate at date of death and CAN NOT be used for any legal documentation. I understand that the liabilities and bonds/shares can not be accurate due to fluctuations.

    Can she declare that the cash assets are accurate?

    Moreover, whilst I consider that the values declared are true, I am not entirely satisfied that she has declared ALL of Dad's investments.

    How do I find out if there are more investments of Dad's (not declared by her)?

    My intention is that once she has considered that all debts and assets are confirmed and settled, that we request that she:

    Changes the declaration on the spreadsheet
    Provides us with all documentation to back up the values
    Then, we employ a solicitor to ensure that all values are accurate
    Will the solicitor be able to do this?
    Will the solicitor be able to find any other assets in bonds/unit trusts/ bank accounts etc?
    What would be the cost implications of a solicitor to carry out the above?

    And finally, Dad transferred his house to my sister and I in 2007 (and remained alive for over 7 yrs from transfer). We will want to sell the property soon and regarding capital gains tax, I am aware that this will be due on the gain of the value of the property when transferred over to the value of sale. On the land registry document when transferred, there was not a value stated. My question is, how to I obtain a property value as at 2007 and what valuation documentation will HMRC accept as a bona fide valuation to enable the calculation of CGT.

    Thank you to anyone that can be of assistance.
Page 7
    • ukmaggie45
    • By ukmaggie45 21st Feb 16, 3:13 PM
    • 2,953 Posts
    • 20,046 Thanks
    ukmaggie45
    I am awaiting Experian credit report to establish any more bank accounts. My question is, can my solicitor find any other investments/bonds/etc that I have been unable to find which are not dormant?
    Originally posted by bingaling
    Look at bank statements for any dividends. Plus I think there are 2 places in UK that have shares registered with them. One is Equaniti, but can't remember offhand the other. Might be worth checking with them. Sorry, late lunch about to arrive so have to go!
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 21st Feb 16, 6:50 PM
    • 2,933 Posts
    • 3,917 Thanks
    FreeBear
    Look at bank statements for any dividends. Plus I think there are 2 places in UK that have shares registered with them. One is Equaniti, but can't remember offhand the other.
    Originally posted by ukmaggie45
    The three share registrars are:
    • Equiniti
    • Capita
    • Compushare
    None of them will tell you what shares a client holds unless you have an account number for them. If there are investments such as unit trusts, these are usually handled outside of the share registrars and you'll need to contact the fund managers directly.

    In all, good fun (not). If you don't know what shares, trusts, or bonds are held, then it will be a case of picking over bank statements forensically to find some trace of dividends. I doubt the Experian credit report will be of much use, and quite frankly, the Unclaimed Asset Register will be a complete waste of £25.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 21st Feb 16, 7:23 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Thank you ukmaggie45 and FreeBear. Have found a unit trust payment on one bank statement. Have also found an Annuity regular payments up until DOD. Both companies not on sisters spreadsheet. So, that is 3 in total investments not accounted for.
    Have written letters tonight to said companies. Yep FreeBear - already paid the £25 to UAR - returned nothing. Appears that Dad has been paying for car Ins for years after getting rid of car... unless this is paying for sisters insurance.. checking tomorrow. Although I do realise that insurance does just renew, but upset that sister being POA did not notify them.
    Last edited by bingaling; 21-02-2016 at 7:34 PM. Reason: additional info
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 22nd Feb 16, 6:36 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Update: Sister has managed to obtain all payments for Dad's cash assets (including the largest one at approx £60,000 - we are awaiting statements for this) but for one savings account, which my hubby has been corresponding with, they have refused to pay out to sisters husband co-exec, they will only pay out with Probate. Sister has now requested executors to go to solicitors to arrange this! Once Probate has been granted, what will happen regarding all the cash assets sister and co-exec have already claimed? Will is draw out any irregularities of the handling of cash assets?
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 22nd Aug 16, 8:04 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Update: After 8 months now, Hubby and I have now completed our forensic search through each of Dad's bank accounts and all other investments that Sister declared on her spreadsheet at the beginning. All figures that she declared more or less tally with our records of which we obtained from the banks. She has declared all investments where Dad received dividends/income etc.
    I am still sure that Dad had other investments where, rather than receiving any dividends/income from, that the investment accrued. But, as advised on here, I am unable to obtain any info without knowing of where these investments were held.
    We finally have the "files" of Dad's financial info but, of course, we can not confirm if this file is complete, as Dad originally left it which sister and her hubby have had possession of throughout this process until recently.
    All the money mentioned above is now in joint Exec's account (without Probate). Pecuniary Legacies have been paid out to her children.
    Since the majority of money was obtained by sisters husband - Co-executor (without my Hubby's knowledge) we have asked him and sister to sign a declaration to confirm this. They signed our declaration but with "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" and have refused to remove this statement when questioned.
    We spoke to our solicitor a while ago and he confirmed that they would not be able to find any other accounts that were not stated on sisters spreadsheet and could only verify the figures she stated against the banks figures (we checked and they do match) Same answer for Probate Office.
    Through one tel con with sis and her hub and my hubby, again, they are terrified of Inland Revenue, but with my hubby insisting on completing IHT forms (even though we have calculated zero for me and sis) sister was screaming "don't include the (her) children on any forms!
    Through all the correspondence between us, hubby and I suspect that sister (as she had access to Dad's accounts) may have cashed in an investment/s of Dad's (which obv we were not aware he had) and paid it into her children's account because she may think that IR would not investigate a 10 yr old's account.
    As mentioned before now, our relationship between sister and me has completely broken down and I have no loyalties to her as I just want the truth, and she and her hubby have obstructed all the way.
    Would IR be able to look into this if hubby explained that he can not declare the figures that sister stated are complete, as we had to rely on the figures she provided in the beginning. Would they be able to look into her children's accounts too to see if any investments were cashed and transferred to her children or herself/husband?
    I would be grateful again if anyone can help at this final stage for advice.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 22nd Aug 16, 8:28 PM
    • 5,396 Posts
    • 4,560 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Update: After 8 months now, Hubby and I have now completed our forensic search through each of Dad's bank accounts and all other investments that Sister declared on her spreadsheet at the beginning. All figures that she declared more or less tally with our records of which we obtained from the banks. She has declared all investments where Dad received dividends/income etc.
    I am still sure that Dad had other investments where, rather than receiving any dividends/income from, that the investment accrued. But, as advised on here, I am unable to obtain any info without knowing of where these investments were held.
    We finally have the "files" of Dad's financial info but, of course, we can not confirm if this file is complete, as Dad originally left it which sister and her hubby have had possession of throughout this process until recently.
    All the money mentioned above is now in joint Exec's account (without Probate). Pecuniary Legacies have been paid out to her children.
    Since the majority of money was obtained by sisters husband - Co-executor (without my Hubby's knowledge) we have asked him and sister to sign a declaration to confirm this. They signed our declaration but with "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" and have refused to remove this statement when questioned.
    We spoke to our solicitor a while ago and he confirmed that they would not be able to find any other accounts that were not stated on sisters spreadsheet and could only verify the figures she stated against the banks figures (we checked and they do match) Same answer for Probate Office.
    Through one tel con with sis and her hub and my hubby, again, they are terrified of Inland Revenue, but with my hubby insisting on completing IHT forms (even though we have calculated zero for me and sis) sister was screaming "don't include the (her) children on any forms!
    Through all the correspondence between us, hubby and I suspect that sister (as she had access to Dad's accounts) may have cashed in an investment/s of Dad's (which obv we were not aware he had) and paid it into her children's account because she may think that IR would not investigate a 10 yr old's account.
    As mentioned before now, our relationship between sister and me has completely broken down and I have no loyalties to her as I just want the truth, and she and her hubby have obstructed all the way.
    Would IR be able to look into this if hubby explained that he can not declare the figures that sister stated are complete, as we had to rely on the figures she provided in the beginning. Would they be able to look into her children's accounts too to see if any investments were cashed and transferred to her children or herself/husband?
    I would be grateful again if anyone can help at this final stage for advice.
    Originally posted by bingaling
    Personally I would send full details to HMR&C and let them get on with it. Your sister and her husband have behaved despicably and deserve to be shopped.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 16th Nov 16, 4:44 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Can anyone help, co-executor has now applied for Probate even though all the money "declared" on their spreadsheet is now in the bank - they were advised to go to probate for IHT purposes, even though we know that there is no IHT to pay. We contacted Inland Revenue twice plus the probate office to explain how the estate was handled by Co-executor and that the figures he and sis are declaring to them may not be true, and both have advised us that there is nothing they can do to look into these figures. Is there anyone else we can contact (my hubby as co-exec did not apply jointly with other co-exec for probate) Many thanks
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 16th Nov 16, 5:06 PM
    • 5,396 Posts
    • 4,560 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Can anyone help, co-executor has now applied for Probate even though all the money "declared" on their spreadsheet is now in the bank - they were advised to go to probate for IHT purposes, even though we know that there is no IHT to pay. We contacted Inland Revenue twice plus the probate office to explain how the estate was handled by Co-executor and that the figures he and sis are declaring to them may not be true, and both have advised us that there is nothing they can do to look into these figures. Is there anyone else we can contact (my hubby as co-exec did not apply jointly with other co-exec for probate) Many thanks
    Originally posted by bingaling
    You can ask the Probate Office to place a caveat on the application that stops probate being granted for six months. Give the probvate ofice a ll the facts.
    • konark
    • By konark 16th Nov 16, 9:41 PM
    • 1,235 Posts
    • 940 Thanks
    konark
    If your husband is named as co-executor but did not apply for probate he will have to be formally notified and possibly sign a form renouncing or reserving this role before probate will be granted. If he doesn't do this it can stop or delay probate. Your husband could also object to the application, or ask to be a joint applicant. If there is a dispute about who should apply, the matter may be determined by the probate court.

    However I think that you can't renounce or be excluded if you have already acted as executor e.g by collecting assets. etc
    Last edited by konark; 16-11-2016 at 9:52 PM. Reason: added
    • jimmy cricket
    • By jimmy cricket 16th Nov 16, 9:50 PM
    • 358 Posts
    • 227 Thanks
    jimmy cricket
    Bingaling I have no advice but wanted to,say I am sorry for you loss and that sibling is putting you through this.

    Family eh. Keep strong
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