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    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 23rd Jan 16, 10:55 AM
    • 64Posts
    • 82Thanks
    bingaling
    Distrust of Co-Executor plus Capital Gains Tax query
    • #1
    • 23rd Jan 16, 10:55 AM
    Distrust of Co-Executor plus Capital Gains Tax query 23rd Jan 16 at 10:55 AM
    Any guidance, advice and help would be greatly appreciated. My Father recently passed away leaving his estate 50/50 to my sister and I. He appointed my sisters husband and my husband to be executors of his will. My sister was POA due to Dad's physical decline (which I was OK with as my sister would only been able to act upon his instructions…. I hope..). Prior to Dad dying, he explained to me that his finances were quite complicated as he had stocks/shares/trusts and bonds and quite a few bank and saving accounts gained through his 85 years of life.

    My problem is that since Dads death, my sister has been moving my Dad's money here and there and said she was paying this and that, this was all stated in phone calls. She also stated that Probate was not required. My husband, being executor, requested a spreadsheet of the estate from my sister. To say the least, she absolutely hit the roof. My husband is taking his responsibilities very seriously in honour of my Dad. When he stated to my sister that POA ended at date of death, and that he and her husband were responsible, again, another outburst. My husband spoke with the other executor and my husband requested that the two of them to open an executors bank account. This was carried out following a long list of obstructions from sister. From the cash assets (values not known by us), my sister, immediately wanted to pay out the cash bequests which happen to be for her children. My husband requested that no payments be made, apart from debts, until a reasonable amount of time had passed to ensure there was enough cash to pay debts before the bequests.

    The joint executor bank account was eventually opened, which, my sister wanted closed immediately as she said it was not adequate and requested that we used her husbands bank account.

    Through constant obstructions regarding the account (a basic bank account with no credit) and my husband responding to every obstruction proving that it was indeed adequate, they went ahead and obtained internet access. Once my sister had got into the internet account, she was finally satisfied that it was OK. However, the estate payments coming in are first going into my sisters husbands account, then, transferred into the joint account which I find questionable.

    Due to my sisters behaviour and consequently the distrust arising from this, and numerous requests for the estate statement, my husband informed them that he would instruct a solicitor. Again my sister hit the roof and finally we received a spreadsheet with the assets and liabilities and payments she had made, together with a disclaimer that the values are not accurate at date of death and CAN NOT be used for any legal documentation. I understand that the liabilities and bonds/shares can not be accurate due to fluctuations.

    Can she declare that the cash assets are accurate?

    Moreover, whilst I consider that the values declared are true, I am not entirely satisfied that she has declared ALL of Dad's investments.

    How do I find out if there are more investments of Dad's (not declared by her)?

    My intention is that once she has considered that all debts and assets are confirmed and settled, that we request that she:

    Changes the declaration on the spreadsheet
    Provides us with all documentation to back up the values
    Then, we employ a solicitor to ensure that all values are accurate
    Will the solicitor be able to do this?
    Will the solicitor be able to find any other assets in bonds/unit trusts/ bank accounts etc?
    What would be the cost implications of a solicitor to carry out the above?

    And finally, Dad transferred his house to my sister and I in 2007 (and remained alive for over 7 yrs from transfer). We will want to sell the property soon and regarding capital gains tax, I am aware that this will be due on the gain of the value of the property when transferred over to the value of sale. On the land registry document when transferred, there was not a value stated. My question is, how to I obtain a property value as at 2007 and what valuation documentation will HMRC accept as a bona fide valuation to enable the calculation of CGT.

    Thank you to anyone that can be of assistance.
Page 3
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 24th Jan 16, 2:16 PM
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    getmore4less
    if there is any data from around that time on equivalent property that can be used.

    You may need to get a proper valuation and ultimately HMRC will decide using their office.

    least of your problems a for now, once it hits the fan on the other stuff if you make a stand selling the house could become a much bigger issue plenty of tricks for sis to pull on this.

    (remember we only get one side of a story observations are based on that)

    edit: crosspost

    if valuations round 2007 are similar CGT ill not be an issue once you factor your CGT allowance.(not surprising since hat was a peak and the property may have gone down hill)
    Last edited by getmore4less; 24-01-2016 at 2:21 PM.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 24th Jan 16, 2:22 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Thank you getmore4less - you are absolutely right regarding what needs to take priority with sister issues... We are in the process of putting everything we have learnt from all of you (am so grateful!) into our plan of action...
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 24th Jan 16, 2:24 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    I have to say, that hubby and I are feeling a sense of confidence and have gained clarity over this whole issue as well as becoming stronger to face what is ahead - and that is thanks to all of you for being so generous with your time and advice.
    • konark
    • By konark 25th Jan 16, 12:09 AM
    • 1,235 Posts
    • 940 Thanks
    konark
    2007 was more or less at the height of the market before the 2008 crash. In some areas of the country prices may be similar or below 2007 values , in London though much higher.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 26th Jan 16, 7:56 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Update: Sister has agreed to hand over bank statements but only statements from date of death of Dad. Is my hubby as executor allowed to see bank statements prior to DOD since sister was POA?

    Further more have instructed a solicitor today explaining estate has become contentious.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 26th Jan 16, 7:59 PM
    • 31,499 Posts
    • 80,763 Thanks
    Mojisola
    Update: Sister has agreed to hand over bank statements but only statements from date of death of Dad. Is my hubby as executor allowed to see bank statements prior to DOD since sister was POA?

    Further more have instructed a solicitor today explaining estate has become contentious.
    Originally posted by bingaling
    The executor needs to see earlier statements to work out whether there is any inheritance tax to pay.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 26th Jan 16, 8:00 PM
    • 5,396 Posts
    • 4,560 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Update: Sister has agreed to hand over bank statements but only statements from date of death of Dad. Is my hubby as executor allowed to see bank statements prior to DOD since sister was POA?

    Further more have instructed a solicitor today explaining estate has become contentious.
    Originally posted by bingaling
    The executor is entitled to see anything connected with the estate. What is she trying to cover up? It might concentrate her mind if you told her that failing production of the statements withing 48 hours the police will be involved as you suspect theft prior to the death. Also have you told the Office of the public guardian that the POA may have been used to commit fraud? I realize this sounds drastic but from what you have said there seems little doubt.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 26th Jan 16, 8:14 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Thank you Yorkshireman99 - hubby wrote to them with the seriousness of how they have acted regarding estate - they offered the docs as at DOD. We therefore have instructed solicitor. We detailed everything that has happened to date and await their instructions. We will indeed contact OPG (on my list of things to do) which I only knew of it's existence through this forum - with thanks
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 26th Jan 16, 8:24 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Thank you Mojisola for confirming this as well. It has confirmed that what we demanded from her is correct. She keeps insisting that because IHT or CGT is NOT payable that we don't need the docs - we informed her regardless as to whether it is or is not, that we still need the info.

    She has had so many chances, it is now in the hands of our solicitor as well as other bodies we need to contact to get to the bottom of this.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 26th Jan 16, 8:28 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Now this is going down the legal route, am I still allowed to obtain advice from this forum? or would it jeapordise anything?
    • littlehobbit
    • By littlehobbit 26th Jan 16, 8:32 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    littlehobbit
    Bingaling, I just popped back here tonight to update my own thread and couldn't help but read yours while I was here. I feel for you so much, there are several things that you have posted that resonate with my own situation, but it would seem that your circumstances are much more extreme and involve much more in terms of finances. Sorry have no words of wisdom, as I came here like, you for advice.

    I hope the help you are getting here gives you the confidence to move forward. I hope the solicitors fees are not too high of course they will be taken from the estate before its divided up, so it should mean that your sisters inheritance is equally reduced by the solicitors fees, which may be some consolation.

    What a silly state of affairs, always thought that bereavement brought families together to support each other, but sadly it seems to bring the worsted out in some. Your SIL seems like quite a piece of work, I'm sure she will be frantically covering her back at the moment (or attempting to get her husband to do so)

    My only piece of advice would be (after seeing the solicitor yourselves) is to maybe get both husbands to have an appointment with a solicitor, hopefully if it is pointed out to her husband that he has very serous legal responsibilities he may decide he has to 'tow the line' and not be influenced by his wife quite so much. Good luck and hope things start to get more positive for you soon
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 26th Jan 16, 8:42 PM
    • 5,396 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    Now this is going down the legal route, am I still allowed to obtain advice from this forum? or would it jeapordise anything?
    Originally posted by bingaling
    As you are anonymous it should not be a problem. However, there is no point in instructing a solicitor if you don't take their advice.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 26th Jan 16, 8:43 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Thank you littlehobbit for your kind words and your helpful advice. If it wasn't for this forum, we would not have known what to do. The guidance has been invaluable, clear, concise and it is with this information that the posters on this forum have been so generous with has lead hubby and I to be strong and to do what is right and of course legal. Good luck to you as well my friend.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 26th Jan 16, 8:43 PM
    • 5,396 Posts
    • 4,560 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Thank you Mojisola for confirming this as well. It has confirmed that what we demanded from her is correct. She keeps insisting that because IHT or CGT is NOT payable that we don't need the docs - we informed her regardless as to whether it is or is not, that we still need the info.

    She has had so many chances, it is now in the hands of our solicitor as well as other bodies we need to contact to get to the bottom of this.
    Originally posted by bingaling
    She is talking complete rubbish about CGT & IHT.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 26th Jan 16, 8:46 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Thank you Yorkshireman99 for confirming this - that's what we thought regarding CGT & IHT.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 26th Jan 16, 8:48 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Oh and Yorkshireman99, thank you, we will of course take solicitors advise, what I meant is that is it OK to share our findings with the forum...
    • littlehobbit
    • By littlehobbit 26th Jan 16, 9:15 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    littlehobbit
    I plan to do so Bingaling. While I was searching for answers I came across many threads on this site and others, where there was a problem, some suggestions, but no followup on what people had to do in the end so it didnt really help. Thats why I hope to pop up the odd development on my thread to help someone similar in the future. Like someone else said, its anonymous so shouldnt be a problem as you cant be accused of liable.

    I agree with you, the help on here is sound, and really does give you confidence as pressure from family etc can be very undermining and makes you start doubting yourself.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 26th Jan 16, 10:09 PM
    • 5,396 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    Sound advice and it is always nice to hear the result. Good luck.
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 26th Jan 16, 10:16 PM
    • 2,932 Posts
    • 3,914 Thanks
    FreeBear
    Thank you Mojisola for confirming this as well. It has confirmed that what we demanded from her is correct. She keeps insisting that because IHT or CGT is NOT payable that we don't need the docs - we informed her regardless as to whether it is or is not, that we still need the info.
    Originally posted by bingaling
    Financial statements going back at least 7 years are needed so that any money gifted can be identified - If there are any sizable withdrawals, some documentary evidence as to what the funds were used for may be needed. As you get closer to the IHT threshold, HMRC may well ask to see any supporting documents.

    This is the story I would tell the sister, keeping quiet about any suspicion of irregularities with the POA.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • bingaling
    • By bingaling 27th Jan 16, 10:34 AM
    • 64 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    bingaling
    Thank you FreeBear - that is exactly what we asked her for - 7 years of statements - it's down to the solicitors to get them now...

    Through our search of lost bank accounts in Dad's name as well as using the Experian UAR service, today I have received letters informing a couple of accounts that sister has not declared on her original spreadsheet that she put together... One of them with a form to cash it in -(it does not state a value though) should I do this now and declare it on our estate statement or wait?
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