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  • FIRST POST
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 28th Dec 12, 10:04 PM
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    heatherw_01
    Mother died with debt and no estate. Help needed
    • #1
    • 28th Dec 12, 10:04 PM
    Mother died with debt and no estate. Help needed 28th Dec 12 at 10:04 PM
    My mum died and she was in debt with many credit card, loan and debt agencies.

    She took out a few life insurance plans which I know that once the funeral has been paid for, the rest will have to go to them.

    Can anyone advise as to the following;

    1. There is no value in her rented flat and she only has a few hundred in the bank. I will have to give the flat back to the landlord before I even get the death certificate, so if the debt people need to know the value of her property, will they believe me as to her items have no value or do I need to get someone to prove it?

    2. She lived in a different city to me. Do I need to get a funeral director; near to her, near to me or near to where I want her buried/the service?

    3. Do I keep receipts from the life insurance people showing how much they gave me and how much I spent on the funeral so that when they take the rest I can prove how much I spent? I think I pay for the funeral before I pay the debt people?

    4. Who do I pay first? debt collectors, loan, credit cards?
    There are tens of thousands of pounds of debt but only maybe 2/3k life insurance from the different policies before funeral. Do I give any money left all to the first company I pay for spread it out?


    I know I can't keep any of the life insurance money that might be left over as they would find out wouldn't they? Same goes for bank balances such as pensions I assume?

    I already told the companies she passed away, but won't get the death certificate until next week so I can't send it onto them until then.

    I know there are a few questions there, but if anyone could help as citizens advice isn't open for a few days.
    Last edited by heatherw_01; 28-12-2012 at 10:08 PM.
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
Page 1
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 28th Dec 12, 10:29 PM
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    getmore4less
    • #2
    • 28th Dec 12, 10:29 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Dec 12, 10:29 PM
    If the life insurance are in trust to you then they may fall out of the estate.

    I would seriously consider not getting involved with the administration of the estate other than to notify of the death and funeral, it could be nothing but hastle if it is insolvent.
    • cte1111
    • By cte1111 28th Dec 12, 10:32 PM
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    cte1111
    • #3
    • 28th Dec 12, 10:32 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Dec 12, 10:32 PM
    Condolences of your loss.

    Re the debts, I think you add up the total debts, then divide the money in the estate proportionally between the creditors. That's presuming the debts are all unsecured, which it sounds like, as she didn't own her flat and you haven't mentioned a car.

    Here's some advice:
    http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other-legal-procedures/insolventestates.php
  • madbadrob
    • #4
    • 29th Dec 12, 1:32 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Dec 12, 1:32 AM
    If the life insurance are in trust to you then they may fall out of the estate.

    I would seriously consider not getting involved with the administration of the estate other than to notify of the death and funeral, it could be nothing but hastle if it is insolvent.
    Originally posted by getmore4less

    I totally agree with this. Be easier to grieve without the worry of this hanging over your head.

    Rob
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 29th Dec 12, 10:15 AM
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    heatherw_01
    • #5
    • 29th Dec 12, 10:15 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Dec 12, 10:15 AM
    If the life insurance are in trust to you then they may fall out of the estate.

    I would seriously consider not getting involved with the administration of the estate other than to notify of the death and funeral, it could be nothing but hastle if it is insolvent.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    The life insurance plans (there are 3) are like over 50 plans. How would I find out if the companies could take them or not?

    I have already contacted the companies to say she died but that is all so far. The estate though is just a rented flat with no valuables in.... is it really worth getting a solicitor involved?
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • cabbage
    • By cabbage 29th Dec 12, 12:47 PM
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    cabbage
    • #6
    • 29th Dec 12, 12:47 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Dec 12, 12:47 PM
    hi
    I'm sorry to hear your mum has died.

    have a word with CAB/Payplan/Step Change first before going to the expense of a solicitor. Also have a look at www.nationaldebtline.co.uk

    As other posters have said, You need to work out what is left after paying any priority debts such as rent inc any arrears, council tax, gas, electricity, secured loans and any overpayments of benefits (some are in the pipeline and cannot be stopped so still may be paid after death). Once the priority debts are out of the way, then non priority debts get a share of what's left. The biggest non priority debt will get the biggest share of the money thats left after priority debts have been paid.

    If you feel you can't do this, get help from CAB or similar who will be able to tell you how much you should pay each one and whether they are priority or non priority debts.
    The Cabbage
    Its Advice - Take it or Leave it
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Dec 12, 2:12 PM
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    getmore4less
    • #7
    • 29th Dec 12, 2:12 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Dec 12, 2:12 PM
    You DON'T have to do anything.

    There is no requirement to deal with an insolvent estate.

    If there are no net assets, why get involved other than to get the funeral if you want.

    The only assets seem to be life policies establish if these are in trust or assets of the estate.

    Be very carefull instructing solicitors you could be come liable for a bill, they won't be interested in an insolvent estate.

    Is there a will with named executors?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Dec 12, 2:19 PM
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    getmore4less
    • #8
    • 29th Dec 12, 2:19 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Dec 12, 2:19 PM
    hi
    I'm sorry to hear your mum has died.

    have a word with CAB/Payplan/Step Change first before going to the expense of a solicitor. Also have a look at www.nationaldebtline.co.uk

    As other posters have said, You need to work out what is left after paying any priority debts such as rent inc any arrears, council tax, gas, electricity, secured loans and any overpayments of benefits (some are in the pipeline and cannot be stopped so still may be paid after death). Once the priority debts are out of the way, then non priority debts get a share of what's left. The biggest non priority debt will get the biggest share of the money thats left after priority debts have been paid.

    If you feel you can't do this, get help from CAB or similar who will be able to tell you how much you should pay each one and whether they are priority or non priority debts.
    Originally posted by cabbage
    Why bother with all that work, let one of the creditirs administer the estate if they think it is worth it.

    Your list of "priority debts is wrong. even HMRC and DWP joint the rest.
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 29th Dec 12, 5:49 PM
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    heatherw_01
    • #9
    • 29th Dec 12, 5:49 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Dec 12, 5:49 PM
    hi
    I'm sorry to hear your mum has died.

    have a word with CAB/Payplan/Step Change first before going to the expense of a solicitor. Also have a look at www.nationaldebtline.co.uk

    As other posters have said, You need to work out what is left after paying any priority debts such as rent inc any arrears, council tax, gas, electricity, secured loans and any overpayments of benefits (some are in the pipeline and cannot be stopped so still may be paid after death). Once the priority debts are out of the way, then non priority debts get a share of what's left. The biggest non priority debt will get the biggest share of the money thats left after priority debts have been paid.

    If you feel you can't do this, get help from CAB or similar who will be able to tell you how much you should pay each one and whether they are priority or non priority debts.
    Originally posted by cabbage
    I am so confused with it all. Once I get the life insurance and paid for the funeral, there will be only about 1k left and about 20k debt
    I feel like crying because I don't understand what to do
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 29th Dec 12, 5:50 PM
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    heatherw_01
    You DON'T have to do anything.

    There is no requirement to deal with an insolvent estate.

    If there are no net assets, why get involved other than to get the funeral if you want.

    The only assets seem to be life policies establish if these are in trust or assets of the estate.

    Be very carefull instructing solicitors you could be come liable for a bill, they won't be interested in an insolvent estate.

    Is there a will with named executors?
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    I must have to do something? There is no estate... it is a rented flat with no value in it. There is no will either
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
  • spacey2012
    I would have a 1k better funeral.
    The debts can go whistle, have a last life at the leaches that sucked your mum dry.
    They can not come after anyone else if the estate is insolvent.
    What is left after funeral costs is the estate.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 29th Dec 12, 5:58 PM
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    Mojisola
    As there isn't a will, you don't have any legal obligation to sort out the finances. You can arrange and pay for the funeral and leave any left-over money in her account and walk away from it.

    Debts can't be paid if there's no money.
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 29th Dec 12, 6:07 PM
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    heatherw_01
    As there isn't a will, you don't have any legal obligation to sort out the finances. You can arrange and pay for the funeral and leave any left-over money in her account and walk away from it.

    Debts can't be paid if there's no money.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    I told the bank she died and I have to take a death certificate in. Aren't I supposed to take the money left and add it to the fund of money to give them? Or do I just leave it?
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 29th Dec 12, 6:07 PM
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    heatherw_01
    I would have a 1k better funeral.
    The debts can go whistle, have a last life at the leaches that sucked your mum dry.
    They can not come after anyone else if the estate is insolvent.
    What is left after funeral costs is the estate.
    Originally posted by spacey2012
    How do I go about giving them the left over money? Obviously once the life insurance pays out, it will be in my bank
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 29th Dec 12, 6:14 PM
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    heatherw_01
    Was I right in calling all the companies to say she died? Some took my name and phone number, others didn't
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Dec 12, 8:12 PM
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    getmore4less
    I know this is a difficult time, and it will be difficult to grasp the situation.

    Do you know anyone that has dealt with this sort of thing before?

    Legaly, no one is responsible for sorting out an estate even named executors in a will can refuse to do anything.

    it is a volutary position that people can decide they will take up, there is an order of priority of those that are eligable eg(might not be the right order) named executors, blood relative, benifitiaries, creditors...

    With an insolvent estate there is no reason to do the job unless you are a creditor and can recover some money.

    Back to your situation,

    Initialy I would stop at the notification of the death to any interested party.
    (keep a track of any costs doing this it is a priority debt on the estate)

    Telling people/companies is OK, be ready for them to try and get you to pay things, you don't have to

    Are you going to register the death, if you do consier getting a few extra copies.

    At this point I would hold off sending or taking in death certs before getting some advise on how to deal with the next step.

    As I said before you need to establish id the life insurance is part of the estte or not before you get any access to the money.

    same with any money in a bank accounts best to just leave it where it is.

    funeral expences are a priority debt so you may be able to access the money for that but normaly you don't want to get it yourself, ideal is direct to the funeral director.

    (even this is something you don't have to do but I think you want to)

    I think an appointment with cab or other advice organisation is important you need some personal contact to deal with this.

    Remember there is no rush if solicitors deal with solvent estates bill don't get paid for months/years so ingore any demands..


    As for the flat if there realy is nothing of value then again you don't need to do anything you are not even resonsible for clearing the place allthough you might want to check for anything of sentimental value.

    DO NOT PAY ANY DEBTS even if someone says you are liable.
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 29th Dec 12, 8:22 PM
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    heatherw_01
    Thanks
    Can't make an appointment with CAB as they aren't open until Wednesday

    In regard to the life insurance, it would need to be paid to me wouldn't it either way? There would be some left over that would need to go back to the creditors though

    Will have to see someone. Anyone have any idea how much a solicitor would charge for this kind of thing?
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Dec 12, 8:23 PM
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    getmore4less
    How do I go about giving them the left over money? Obviously once the life insurance pays out, it will be in my bank
    Originally posted by heatherw_01
    You need to check is this is estate money or not.

    The companies should tell you this, or I think they should ask you for some kind of indeminity if they pay out without probate granted if it is estate money.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Dec 12, 8:35 PM
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    getmore4less
    Thanks
    Can't make an appointment with CAB as they aren't open until Wednesday

    Not a problem it can wait till then or even longer, these things take time
    take a break till monday make an apointment, ignore any letters or phone calls till then.

    keep asking questions if you want

    In regard to the life insurance, it would need to be paid to me wouldn't it either way? There would be some left over that would need to go back to the creditors though

    Will have to see someone. Anyone have any idea how much a solicitor would charge for this kind of thing?
    Originally posted by heatherw_01
    Thats the point NO,

    if it beongs to the "estate" then it pays the bills in the specific order by who ever decides to administer the estate.

    If it belongs to you then you get it and you don't have to pay anything from it you don't want.
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 29th Dec 12, 8:37 PM
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    heatherw_01
    But if it belongs to the estate, the funeral costs come first before they get paid?
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
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