Do banking apps help?

2

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  • ValiantSon
    ValiantSon Posts: 2,586 Forumite
    edited 7 July 2018 at 8:50AM
    Sapphire wrote: »
    That doesn't seem to be the case.

    It is, and everything you say below is consistent with what I have described.
    Sapphire wrote: »
    On logging into my Nationwide account last week, for example, I noticed to my alarm that the bank had included, under something called 'MoneyWatch', messages to the effect that 'you have spent more on your food shopping last month than in the previous month' (can't remember the exact wording), and a couple of other messages with regard to my spending. Clicking onto these messages brought up graphs of the breakdowns.

    Yes, this is based on the shops that you spent money at, as I said, but not the actual items you bought. They are assuming that all spending in the supermarket is food shopping. They are unable to differentiate between the diferent kinds of items that you may have bought in the supermarket.
    Sapphire wrote: »
    I never asked the bank to do this (and never was asked to approve such monitoring), and do not want a bank to pry into my spending habits at all.

    Well you'd best stop using anything other than cash to pay for things then. The banks have always known where you shopped because the merchants submit your transactions to them for payment. All that is different, is that the banks are presenting this information to you in a different way. They are not tracking you or prying into your spending.
    Sapphire wrote: »
    I can see that some people, who find it difficult to control their spending and regularly get overdrawn, might feel they want to agree to a bank controlling their spending in such a way, but I never get overdrawn and have always been in control of my financial matters.

    They aren't controlling your spending. They haven't said that you are only allowed to spend a certain amount in any one type of shop, have they? All they have done is made some broad assumptions about the kind of goods you are likely to have bought from different kinds of shops, using the data they have always had, and then presented this to you in a new way. They are not controlling your spending and you are completely free to ignore their graphs and messages.
    Sapphire wrote: »
    I asked for the 'facility' to be removed, but of course have no way of knowing whether the bank continues to 'analyse' my spending and whether it is using the information for its own purposes. I find this an alarming invasion of privacy into something that is part of a customer's private life and no business of other parties.

    Really? They have always had this information, otherwise they would not have been able to pay the merchants with whom you have made transactions. It is absolutely their business, as you want them to settle your debts that result from spending. The only way they can do this is if they know who to pay! They are not actually interested in whether you have bought £100 worth of smoked salmon, or £100 worth of meat paste. They are simply presenting the data to you in a different way.

    If you are really that worried about the bank knowing that you did some shopping at Tesco, or Boots, or wherever, then you need to stick to only transacting in cash.

    This is not an invasion of your privacy!
  • eDicky
    eDicky Posts: 6,547
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    Armorica wrote: »
    Starling does this.
    Not only Starling, but all the fintech apps, Monzo, Revolut, Loot, N26 etc, give instant notification of any transaction, usually with the location, globally. (Tandem is also giving such notifications, but not reliably in my experience.) I find this helpful, to be able to check that everything is correct before leaving the location, and to be confident that if there's ever any fraud on my account I will know immediately.

    Personally, I'm not interested in any of the spending category or budgeting features, but they are no doubt useful for some.

    Another advantage, for me at least, that these fintech accounts have is that you can instantly freeze and unfreeze your card with the app, and in some cases (Starling, Revolut) selectively disable various types of transaction when you will not be using them.

    There may be some, but I have not encountered any of the 'mainstream' bank apps which have these security features or provide instant notifications, not even the supposedly innovative 'B' app by Yorkshire Bank. .
    Evolution, not revolution
  • robatwork
    robatwork Posts: 7,086
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    Zanderman wrote: »
    But no better than the basic problem, which is the card doesn't know whether you bought jeans, beer, rice krispies, a DVD, a toaster, condoms, a new telly, or a trolley-full of bananas (or all of the above) from Tesco.

    Weirdly that is an accurate chronological description of my last Saturday night.
  • Sapphire
    Sapphire Posts: 4,269
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    edited 7 July 2018 at 10:50AM
    ValiantSon wrote: »
    It is absolutely their business, as you want them to settle your debts that result from spending. The only way they can do this is if they know who to pay! They are not actually interested in whether you have bought £100 worth of smoked salmon, or £100 worth of meat paste. They are simply presenting the data to you in a different way.

    If you are really that worried about the bank knowing that you did some shopping at Tesco, or Boots, or wherever, then you need to stick to only transacting in cash.

    Oh, you are very defensive in your protection of the banks, aren't you! I wonder why?

    For information, when I contacted the bank about this invasion of my privacy, the person who responded said they knew exactly what I meant.

    Note that I don't have any debts, and 'transacting in cash' only has been made impossible, as you well know. It amazes me that some people apparently cannot take charge of their own finances and monitor them, and that they feel they have to be led by the hand by a financial institution. Still, carry on, if that is what you wish,.

    Presumably the banks will soon start charging for the use of this wonder, if they don't already.
  • ValiantSon
    ValiantSon Posts: 2,586 Forumite
    Sapphire wrote: »
    Oh, you are very defensive in your protection of the banks, aren't you! I wonder why?

    :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

    Funnily enough, the banks don't have much use for historians.

    I am able to follow a logical argument. This upsets some people on here who like to rant and rave, and results in me being labelled as some kind of stooge or shill for the banking industry; it doesn't mean that I actually am.

    Furthermore, I haven't defended Nationwide (who are a building society, not a bank), I have simply explained how you are wrong.
    Sapphire wrote: »
    For information, when I contacted the bank about this invasion of my privacy, the person who responded said they knew exactly what I meant.

    So some man or woman in a call centre, who also doesn't understand what is going on, makes an off the cuff comment, that is not representative of the corporate position of the bank, nor of the realities of how banking works. So what?
    Sapphire wrote: »
    Note that I don't have any debts, and 'transacting in cash' only has been made impossible, as you well know.

    Whether or not you have debts is irrelevant. I referred to debts in terms of the money you owe for each transaction. This is a different thing.

    How on earth has transacting exclusively in cash been made impossible? Every shop I have ever been into will allow me to pay for goods in cash.

    When you are shown to be wrong, accept it with good grace, and don't chuck around ludicrous conspiracy theories about who my employer is (definitely not a bank, or any other financial institution), or make things up.

    Nothing you have written counters anything that I wrote.
  • EarthBoy
    EarthBoy Posts: 3,031
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    Sapphire wrote: »
    On logging into my Nationwide account last week, for example, I noticed to my alarm that the bank had included, under something called 'MoneyWatch', messages to the effect that 'you have spent more on your food shopping last month than in the previous month' (can't remember the exact wording), and a couple of other messages with regard to my spending. Clicking onto these messages brought up graphs of the breakdowns. I never asked the bank to do this (and never was asked to approve such monitoring), and do not want a bank to pry into my spending habits at all.

    MoneyWatch is optional, so if you don't like it, don't use it. I don't even have it on my Nationwide account, probably because MoneyWatch only tracks your current account spending, and I use my credit card for nearly all my spending, so there's no money to "watch".

    As ValiantSon points out, the only way to stop any bank knowing where you're spending your money is to pay for everything in cash.
  • Sapphire
    Sapphire Posts: 4,269
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    edited 7 July 2018 at 11:33AM
    ValiantSon wrote: »
    don't chuck around ludicrous conspiracy theories about who my employer is (definitely not a bank, or any other financial institution), or make things up.

    There's no need to be so defensive. You are quite free to use this facility, and to promote it, obviously. :rotfl:

    One of my main issues was that a financial institution suddenly provided this analysis of my spending without asking permission to do so. I consider my spending to be a private affair, not one that I wish a bank to analyse. Why would a bank provide such a facility to customers? How is it in its interests?
  • ValiantSon
    ValiantSon Posts: 2,586 Forumite
    edited 7 July 2018 at 11:44AM
    Sapphire wrote: »
    There's no need to be so defensive. You are quite free to use this facility, and to promote it, obviously. :rotfl:

    You made unsubstantiated insinuations about me.

    I haven't promoted the facility, and if you'd care to actually read my posts, then you'd see that I have said that the service is largely pointless.

    I have corrected flaws in your thinking. You still haven't addressed the points I made, including your rather bizarre claim that it had been made impossible to transact exclusively in cash. That is because you are unable to because what I have said is correct, and what you have said isn't, but neither have you had the good grace to accept that you are wrong.

    Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions, will you.
    Sapphire wrote: »
    One of my main issues was that a financial institution suddenly provided this analysis of my spending without asking permission to do so. I consider my spending to be a private affair, not one that I wish a bank to analyse. Why would a bank provide such a facility to customers? How is it in its interests?

    They provided you with a different way of presenting your spending using the data that they have always had. They provided it to you, and to nobody else. This is not an invasion of your privacy: nothing private has been made public, and the building society have no more knowledge about you than they always did.

    It is in the building society's interest (Nationwide is still not a bank) to provide customers with innovative features on their accounts to encourage retention of business. You don't like it because you - wrongly - believe it to be an invasion of your privacy, but many customers will think it is a nice feature, and many others (as I would) will think it pointless, but not a problem.
  • Sapphire
    Sapphire Posts: 4,269
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    edited 7 July 2018 at 11:09PM
    You made unsubstantiated insinuations about me.

    Granted: I apologise for the thoughtless, off-the-cuff remark.

    I haven't promoted the facility, and if you'd care to actually read my posts, then you'd see that I have said that the service is largely pointless.

    Yes, you have said so.

    I have corrected flaws in your thinking.

    Please don't try to correct 'flaws' in anyone's 'thinking' (sounds like mind control).

    Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions, will you.

    A tad agressive, what? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about 'facts', however much others may disagree with it.
  • ValiantSon
    ValiantSon Posts: 2,586 Forumite
    edited 7 July 2018 at 11:38PM
    Sapphire wrote: »
    You made unsubstantiated insinuations about me.

    Granted: I apologise for the thoughtless, off-the-cuff remark.

    Thank you.
    Sapphire wrote: »
    I haven't promoted the facility, and if you'd care to actually read my posts, then you'd see that I have said that the service is largely pointless.

    Yes, you have.

    No, I really haven't. Please identify where in my posts I have promoted this. (N.B. You'll find this difficult because I haven't).
    Sapphire wrote: »
    I have corrected flaws in your thinking.

    Please don't try to correct 'flaws' in anyone's 'thinking' (sounds like mind control).

    No it doesn't. Correcting logical flaws in thinking is how people learn.
    Sapphire wrote: »
    Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions, will you.

    A tad agressive, what? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about 'facts', however much others may disagree with it.

    No, you are not entitled to your own facts. Facts are indisputable.

    This kind of wooly thinking is at the heart of all that is wrong with modern discourse.
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