Electric cars

qwert_yuiop · 7 August 2018 at 12:35AM

How about keeping a little petrol powered generator in the boot? Would that be feasible?

AdrianC · 7 August 2018 at 7:46AM

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

How about keeping a little petrol powered generator in the boot? Would that be feasible?

It's good enough for BMW.

Martyn1981 · 7 August 2018 at 7:48AM

Fun article looking at the EV's that might 'drive' the market forward in the US. (Hopefully they will do a European version?)

Personally I think there is a lack of knowledge about EV's in the US, and a lack of conviction from the old guard to build them, but if the TM3 becomes the top selling car over the next year (or the top selling car in a month, sometime during 2018/19), then that should make big news and awaken US EV knowledge/awareness ...... but as always I'd expect supply to be the logjam.

Beyond The Tesla Model 3: What’s The Next “Hit” EV In The US?

To have a chance of achieving mass adoption of EVs in the US, we need more than just Tesla to start selling high-volumes of EVs. We need a slew of affordable, non-luxury/performance electric models of SUVs, CUVs, small/mid-sized sedans, and even pickups — and we need them from multiple brands. A key challenge, unfortunately, is that there are very few current or future EV models that fit this description and that are likely to achieve a high volume of sales consistently in the next 5 years.

AnotherJoe · 7 August 2018 at 9:14AM

Stageshoot wrote: »

Well lets see how the public react to the new Hyundai Kona.

Seems to tick most of the boxes the public feel they need.

SUV / Crossover Bodystyle
300 Mile Real World Range (64kwh battery)
All the tech and toys to keep it upto date
100kw CCS charging, add 200 miles range in 50mins 140 miles in 30mins

An on the road price of under £30k

And looking like real world quick delivers rather than vapourware.

Ordered ours on launch day 2nd Aug, was offered a delivery slot in 2 weeks but pushed it back to 1st Week Sept so its in a 68 plate.

Should meet the needs of many.

Nice do post back how it is when you have had it a few weeks, I will likely be getting the Kia equivalent, the Niro, in a years or so's time.

NBLondon · 7 August 2018 at 9:14AM

That bit Martyn has quoted is spot on... Yes the 3 and the X will make some inroad into their segment and that will fund the next model but there are a lot of market segments stateside with quite different needs. Can any big player get into all of them? Or will they focus on the strengths and one go for commercial and another for luxury?

Herzlos · 7 August 2018 at 10:42AM

Gloomendoom wrote: »

I regularly make a trip of 175 miles to a place with no mains power. Half the time I am towing a ton trailer. I don't stop at all on the way there. I may stop to refuel on the way back but it takes five, possibly ten minutes max. I don't currently buy coffee anywhere, nor do I want to.

I think this is the use-case that is going to be the hardest for EV's to deal with, and will likely need to introduce a fast-charge stop somewhere on the route if destination charging never catches up. But by then your usage profile might change; that's a 3 hour each way drive if all motorway (60mph), so probably 4+ if you're talking about B roads (since there's no mains power). Would you in the future be willing to add a 20/30 minute fast-charge stop (so adding about 6% to your journey) if you're knocking your fuel bill down by a factor of 4? That'd easily pay for a coffee and a donut whilst you wait to charge.

Alternatively, if everyone else goes electric, that'll mean there's some combustion fuel available for the few people that still need to run a range extender. Win, win

Depending on how long you stay at the site and how secure it is, you could potentially get away with some sort of solar/win generation and battery storage solution. That'd potentially let you get a full charge without grid access, give you power on site, and save you the 10 minute re-fuel stop on the way home!

Martyn1981 · 7 August 2018 at 12:09PM

NBLondon wrote: »

That bit Martyn has quoted is spot on... Yes the 3 and the X will make some inroad into their segment and that will fund the next model but there are a lot of market segments stateside with quite different needs. Can any big player get into all of them? Or will they focus on the strengths and one go for commercial and another for luxury?

Hi. I think that might be the problem. Tesla has the large luxury saloon segment sewed up as top dog, and the TM3 looks like it's selling about 50% of the mid size luxury market as well as being top seller in the small & mid size, but Leaf sales aren't doing so well in the smaller cheaper segments.

There may be some good news having watched Teslanomics this morning, when Tesla and analysts looked at the top 5 cars being traded in for a TM3 and noted that they are much cheaper models from the lower segments, and cars that have traditionally dominated their segments. So TOC might be featuring in people's calculations which is, of course, essential when choosing an EV over an ICE. Just to be clear, good news if lower segment car owners are stepping up by investing (effectively) in TOC rather than ASP, but still bad news unless other car companies can offer something similar, such as the Chevy Bolt, but at a profit of course.

Here's the Teslanomics episode with the relevant bit from 6:45mins to 11:30mins. Excellent analysis as always from Ben Sullins a data analyst.

Tesla Short Sellers Lose Over 1B in Stock Rally

PS - Have to say I'm not worried about the commercial sector since these will be dominated by fleet costs. If EV's are cheaper, then they will takeover at a rate limited only by supply, and it looks like they will be cheaper.

Gloomendoom · 7 August 2018 at 12:52PM

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

How about keeping a little petrol powered generator in the boot? Would that be feasible?

I thought about that. I haven't done the calculations but I expect it would have to run the whole weekend to put anything worthwhile back into an EV battery and generators are noisy. I was actually wondering if I could use the EV battery to supplement the small scale domestic solar/battery arrangement I have now which needs to be supplemented by a generator during the winter.

I did the 175 mile drive this morning. It took me just less than three hours. The round trip in an EV would have needed two stops to recharge, significantly increasing door to door journey time.

However, looking at the bigger picture, over a year I would probably waste less time recharging on longer journeys than I do visiting petrol stations currently.

Gloomendoom · 7 August 2018 at 12:59PM

Herzlos wrote: »

Depending on how long you stay at the site and how secure it is, you could potentially get away with some sort of solar/win generation and battery storage solution. That'd potentially let you get a full charge without grid access, give you power on site, and save you the 10 minute re-fuel stop on the way home!

I've actually got a very small scale solar set up. See the post above. Expanding the setup to be able to charge a car year round would probably cost more than getting connected to the grid.

There is a pub down the road and I'm hoping that they will get a couple of charge points fitted for customers that I could use overnight for a fee. I suspect charge points will follow free wifi as a "must have" for pubs and holiday lets etc if they want peoples' business.

almillar · 7 August 2018 at 1:07PM

So, again, twice the price of the ICE version that's been on the market a year already.

IIRC, that was held up as the reason the e-Up! didn't sell...

Yeah, that's a lazy comparison. Compare the range of the e-Up" vs the petrol version - it's lower. Stageshoot chose the higher capacity battery, there's also a 39kWh one starting at £25k - you have to compare spec for spec. The £4,500 is an acknowledgement that EVs are more expensive TO BUY for now, sure.

I can stop, have a pee, stretch legs maybe buy a coffee to go and be on the road again in 15 minutes. Add a refuel and it's 20 or 22 minutes. To match that with an EV under current circumstances, I need to be sure of finding a charger ready to use and be able to charge from 5% to 100% in that 22 minutes

First off, you don't rapid charge to 100% unless absolutely necessary, it's literally a waste of time. Rapid charging figures are often quoted to 80%, because it slows down above that. So yes, plug in, stretch legs, pee etc WHILST CHARGING will give you a solid 50% charge. We've got 50kW chargers at the moment, I think there are 1 or 2 100kW chargers in the UK. My car has 100kW charging already, so when the infrastructure catches up, you'll get what you want. But just get this 100% out of your head, it's rarely necessary or practical. (and you drink your coffee quickly!) I do 30 min stops quite happily.

How about keeping a little petrol powered generator in the boot? Would that be feasible?

As AdrianC says, i3 REx (Range Extender) has, basically, a motorbike engine that charges the battery. If you go DIY, it'll be very inefficient to run one that a 3 pin plug would go into.

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