Sourdough and long fermentation specifically

thriftwizard · 18 June 2019 at 9:34PM

Has anyone tried baking loaves in Pyrex dishes? It occurred to me earlier that it might work out better to do two smaller loaves than one large one, but I was wracking my brains to work out what to bake them in, so I didn't have to bake one after the other; the oven's easily large enough to get two large oblong Pyrex dishes (I have three, as it happens!) in side by side, but not round ones. I could use the lids as bases, as they're flat, and the dishes themselves like cloches. I'm fairly sure I could use some of the smallish oblong baskets I use to display embroidery threads etc. on my market stall as proving baskets, lined with well-floured old linen tea-towels.

Asking because my large loaf collapsed earlier on being tipped into my large Le Creuset casserole - inherited from my Mum when she stopped cooking altogether - although it had passed the "poke" test for being at the right stage of proving, not under- or over-proved. I think the drop was too much for it... It did bounce back fairly well; the crust was great and it tasted really good, but the crumb, although acceptable, wasn't as fluffy as I'd hoped.

Two smaller loaves would give me the opportunity to freeze one, and only have to bake once a week; one big one often ends up a bit stale by the weekend. I've frozen & defrosted my chef friend's lovely sourdough successfully so I'm hoping it would work with my own too.

thriftwizard · 20 June 2019 at 1:01PM

Just baked a batch of savoury overnight-risen rolls; "Khubsa bil Ashab" from Jane Mason's The Book of Buns. Fabulous... although risky; I've eaten 3 already!

There are some other really good recipes in there, if you should chance upon a copy. All recipes can be made with a sourdough starter - she tells you how in the first chapter - and she also gives amounts for fresh yeast, instant yeast & dried yeast for each recipe. My entire family are now hooked on Norwegian Shilling Buns...

Camomile · 20 June 2019 at 3:41PM

Thriftwizard, I baked in ceramic creuset casserole dish and clear pyrex one. Cast iron works best though.
The pyrex dishes let you see through and intervene when needed.I have a round one( which round bread fits only just touching the lid) and oval one ( big enough to put chicken in it). Oval one doesn’t restrict the expansion of loaf so it spreads sideways a little bit.

I got an cast iron caserole dish to use and must say it’s the best. I think it slows down the baking process a little bit while providing the right environment for the bread to rise. Another advantage is being able to pop an ice cube to create a nice crust at the top which is impossible with ceramic/pyrex dishes.

caronc · 20 June 2019 at 8:33PM

thriftwizard wrote: »

Has anyone tried baking loaves in Pyrex dishes? It occurred to me earlier that it might work out better to do two smaller loaves than one large one, but I was wracking my brains to work out what to bake them in, so I didn't have to bake one after the other; the oven's easily large enough to get two large oblong Pyrex dishes (I have three, as it happens!) in side by side, but not round ones. I could use the lids as bases, as they're flat, and the dishes themselves like cloches. I'm fairly sure I could use some of the smallish oblong baskets I use to display embroidery threads etc. on my market stall as proving baskets, lined with well-floured old linen tea-towels.

Asking because my large loaf collapsed earlier on being tipped into my large Le Creuset casserole - inherited from my Mum when she stopped cooking altogether - although it had passed the "poke" test for being at the right stage of proving, not under- or over-proved. I think the drop was too much for it... It did bounce back fairly well; the crust was great and it tasted really good, but the crumb, although acceptable, wasn't as fluffy as I'd hoped.

Two smaller loaves would give me the opportunity to freeze one, and only have to bake once a week; one big one often ends up a bit stale by the weekend. I've frozen & defrosted my chef friend's lovely sourdough successfully so I'm hoping it would work with my own too.

I've not used pyrex for sourdough but have for other breads and they've worked well. I'd be wary of pre-heating pyrex though in case it shattered when the dough hit. I've no experience of baking sourdough in an unheated vessel but it may well be just fine. I feel your pain re the dropping the loaf into the casserole:mad:, I use a heavy steel pot as cast iron is too heavy for me but it's still tricky. Two things I've tried were popping the loaf out of the proving bowl onto greaseproof paper which makes it easier to lower in and heating a tray & pot and using the tray as a cloche. Both I'd say produce equally good results so worth a try.

Apodemus · 20 June 2019 at 9:12PM

Camomile wrote: »

Pizza went fine, I just need to adjust the quantity of dough as made far too much. Chickens enjoyed the rest though. You’re right, it’s completely different to greasy supermarket ones, able to roll out the dough really thin. I need to work on tomato sauce though, seemed to be very tomatoey when I cooked it, on the pizza, it lacked “zing”.

You can never have too much dough! I now make up a (yeasted) pizza dough on a Friday morning before work and bung it in the bottom of the fridge. Even if we don’t end up having pizza on a Friday night, it is there for quick use when needed and I find it is good for at least a week. I incorporate a mix of Mediterranean herbs through the flour when I am preparing the dough, so it is very clearly a savoury dough. With that at the bottom of the fridge there is always a last minute meal available.

If it doesn’t become pizza, I cut it into strips and dry fry to make bread sticks (a good MSE replacement for crisps with pre-meal drinks or to dunk in a roasted Camembert) or cut into smaller nuggets and fried in oil for angioletti fritti (wonderful if mixed while still warm through a tomato and rocket salad). Last week it was in the fridge for a full week before becoming a Provencal fougasse. The dough relaxes a bit with age and the flavours develop, but I don’t think i’ve ever had to throw it out. However, I am too mean to discard any sourdough starter either and have sourdough pancakes most mornings to keep the starter turning over.

thriftwizard · 20 June 2019 at 10:24PM

Caronc, I've worked out that I can use my (round) Le Creusets upside down! The handles on the lids fit between the wires of the oven shelves, so I can use the lid (which is near enough flat) as a base & the pot as a cloche. I have three round ones, in different sizes; the two smaller ones would do two small loaves though I may have to remove a shelf to get the depth to use two.

Apodemus, I love the breadstick idea... all of the ideas, in fact!

silverwhistle · 20 June 2019 at 10:49PM

thriftwizard wrote: »

Asking because my large loaf collapsed earlier on being tipped into my large Le Creuset casserole .

I used a Le Creuset casserole last time after I saw it mentioned here, but put the dough on the sheet and then shoved the inverted pre-heated casserole dish over the top. Very successful!

I made a couple of small loaves today after leaving a starter in the fridge overnight as couldn't be bothered to go to the shops. I added about 30 grams of soaked oats to the mix which helps keep it moist and adds to the roughage. One for me and a smaller one for aged parent, but due to entertaining tomorrow I might just go and mix up a quick starter to shove in the fridge, if there's any space from the wine bottles...

'Night all..

Vanlady · 20 June 2019 at 11:22PM

I haven't baked any SD bread in a pyrex dish. I prove mine in a (gifted, previously an oiled Pyrex bowl ) basket then plonk it onto a baking sheet onto a hot pizza stone, which lives in my oven all the time and bake it under an upturned pyrex bowl using it as a cloche.

I also never discard any starter, like a lot of books tell you to do, such a waste! I tend to give my starter a generous feed once a week and bake a pure sd loaf with it. Remaining starter I add to yeasted doughs during the week, making flatbreads, pittas, nans etc, and use less yeast, usually about 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon only. I find the addition of the starter gives the dough a real boost.

I also like to keep some dough in the fridge.....there is nothing quite like fresh bread, in whatever form it takes, to eat every day:p

Ps love reading about everyone's experiences and picking up great tips!

Apodemus · 21 June 2019 at 5:27AM

A “+1” from me for keeping the pizza stone in the oven all the time. Since we cook in/on a Rayburn, it means that the pizza stone is always ready to take whatever comes it’s way and the stove hot plate is always ready for sourdough pancakes, flatbreads, chapatis or griddle scones. Just as well we are not on an Atkins diet!

PollyWollyDoodle · 21 June 2019 at 8:46AM

I'm also learning such a lot from this! I am in a 'Real Bread Club' - started by someone local after he saw a Bread Club on a programme with Nadiya Hussain. Our numbers have dwindled, and now it's just me and two other ladies and our mentor. We meet about once a month at someone's home, and make bread together. This week he demonstrated a rustic loaf that you start with an autolyse the night before. It only uses 1g of yeast, and I was astonished at how lively it was. We didn't actually bake it this time, we made pitta breads instead.

I found this website which has lots of recipes and helpful tips on. weekend bakery

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Sourdough and long fermentation specifically

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