On-grid domestic battery storage

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  • pile-o-stone
    pile-o-stone Posts: 396 Forumite
    zeupater wrote: »
    Hopefully anyone interested in buying a battery that comes across this thread will attempt to take more time to follow the logic applied in that exchange of views than the average reader, but then again, maybe every reader will now better understand the level of complexity in forecasting & justification of such products and be reminded to be slightly more cautious whenever claims are made in the future .... if so, despite the hours of thinking & typing expended, I'd consider it as job done!

    Bang on. I think because I'm not in the market for a battery I'm not too interested in the minutiae, but I bet I would be if I was in the market. Ignore me, as I said to Mart, I think I just jumped in with both feet without thinking :D

    Keep up the good work lads, it is appreciated, despite comments in my recent posts :o:o :)
    5.18 kWp PV systems (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
    Solar iBoost+ to two immersion heaters on 300L thermal store.
    Vegan household with 100% composted food waste
    Mini orchard planted and vegetable allotment created.
  • gefnew
    gefnew Posts: 876 Forumite
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    edited 10 November 2018 at 10:30AM
    H All
    Here is a new one from the energy saving trust site.
    The future of PV is also becoming heavily linked with energy storage as this allows people to use the locally-generated energy even when the sun's not out. We're seeing interest in batteries continuing to grow with most of the attention, unsurprisingly, around electrical storage. But that's not the only option. Recently, we’ve been working with social housing providers such as East Lothian Housing Association and Castle Rock Edinvar, which are piloting the use of solar PV panels which charge Sunamp heat batteries. It’s a method of storing heat energy in a non-toxic chemical solution, which can provide mains pressure heated water to homes and other buildings.
  • orrery
    orrery Posts: 798 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    ...but I've really no idea if E7 will continue in its current form...


    I would have thought it would, as wind blows at any time and demand falls off overnight.


    The battery viability calculation is always difficult as modelling solar generation is almost impossible.


    I use a very simple calculation to check battery viability. I simply use my export figure (from the smart meter) and assume I can use it all via a battery, and assume that I can transfer all my peak usage to off-peak. Both these will over estimate the gain (hey, I like toys and I want a battery) but even using this man-maths I still I can't make the numbers work.


    I still think that domestic batteries will make sense for utilities to install before it make sense for the consumer - I'm happy stump up money to extend the size of a battery installed by my utility and allow them to use my garage wall.
    4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TLLocation: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch20kWh Pylontech US5000 batteries, Lux AC inverter,Skoda Enyaq iV80, TADO Central Heating control
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    gefnew wrote: »
    H All
    Recently, we’ve been working with social housing providers such as East Lothian Housing Association and Castle Rock Edinvar, which are piloting the use of solar PV panels which charge Sunamp heat batteries. It’s a method of storing heat energy in a non-toxic chemical solution, which can provide mains pressure heated water to homes and other buildings.[/COLOR]

    [/LEFT]

    I thought the Sunamp ideas were really interesting, including the idea of moving barges full of the stuff on the canal network as a massive form of storage.

    Have the economics improved though yet? Last time I checked I worked out gas savings of about £25pa and a repayment period of about 70yrs, and that was with 5kWh of spare generation through the 180 poorer days, which I don't have being E/W.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    orrery wrote: »
    I still think that domestic batteries will make sense for utilities to install before it make sense for the consumer - I'm happy stump up money to extend the size of a battery installed by my utility and allow them to use my garage wall.

    That's what happened with my forum friend that I posted first year results from. His price was subsidised by the DNO.

    Good / bad news is that the batts weren't performing properly, but this was picked up by the company in their monitoring and they swapped all the batts.

    So we are still in the early days with the technology, but I think it looks really promising for the medium term, maybe even short term, but I'm still a tiny bit nervous about the kit at the moment, but that works well with waiting a few years for price reductions hopefully.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • ASavvyBuyer
    ASavvyBuyer Posts: 1,737 Forumite
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    This article about EV batteries makes interesting reading.

    https://evobsession.com/the-secret-life-of-ev-batteries/

    I wonder if home battery systems adopt the same techniques to extend their life.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    ASavvyBuyer wrote: »
    This article about EV batteries makes interesting reading.

    https://evobsession.com/the-secret-life-of-ev-batteries/

    I wonder if home battery systems adopt the same techniques to extend their life.

    I was wondering if oversizing the battery by 20%, so it's big enough for the second decade, then restricting use to 10%-90% would possibly prevent much of that degradation happening anyway. Or oversizing to 140%, but limiting use to 20%-80% range?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,790 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    I was wondering if oversizing the battery by 20%, so it's big enough for the second decade, then restricting use to 10%-90% would possibly prevent much of that degradation happening anyway. Or oversizing to 140%, but limiting use to 20%-80% range?

    Would that be financially worthwhile? Assuming battery price is directly related to capacity you would then be paying 40% more per kwh for your battery but in the next decade prices will hopefully fall significantly.
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    JKenH wrote: »
    Would that be financially worthwhile? Assuming battery price is directly related to capacity you would then be paying 40% more per kwh for your battery but in the next decade prices will hopefully fall significantly.

    Excellent point, Doh!

    I suppose it may (or may not) make sense when batt prices have fallen and start to stabilise. But even then we may see new tech arrive, and more lost interest on higher capital cost ....... I'm having my doubts now. :o
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • orrery
    orrery Posts: 798 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    .... I'm having my doubts now. :o


    Now, don't be silly. We're all in it for the toys, so just get on and buy it.
    4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TLLocation: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch20kWh Pylontech US5000 batteries, Lux AC inverter,Skoda Enyaq iV80, TADO Central Heating control
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