Carbon monoxide leak in rented property

Hi everyone,

I am just looking for some advice - I need to know where I stand regarding a bill.

Last Friday at 2.30am, myself, my boyfriend and my 2-year old awoke to all 3 of my carbon monoxide alarms sounding in the property that I rent.
After going downstairs and opening the doors/windows, we realised that my boyfriend had left one of the gas hob rings on after cooking dinner the previous night. It was on very low, almost hard to see.

I took my daughter, sat in the car, and called Cadent on the emergency line. Gas engineer checked the property, said we were safe to return, and capped off the gas.

I called my landlord a few hours later and told him what happened. He called his engineer 'mate' (he is a registered engineer, with a number etc.), who arrived later. He performed a gas safety check on all gas appliances within the property, and switched the gas back on. No mention was made about paying a bill for him coming out.

5 days later, my estate agent phoned me and said that I have to pay £50 because the gas engineer had to come to the property and perform the gas safety check/turn it back on.

I asked them to send me the invoice, which they have done.

I am shocked that I am getting charged for this. I understand that leaving the hob ring lit was a mistake. However, even if it was left on, it should not have leaked carbon monoxide? Did they really expect me to ignore all the alarms and go back to bed?

I would like some advice - was I right to be charged?

I am also not sure I trust the 'gas man' who came over to deem the property safe again. He is a friend of the landlord's and was going to write the gas safety certificate out without bothering to check the fireplace. He said 'I only checked it a few months ago'.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
PP

Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 178,077
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    Community Admin
    Hi - welcome to the forum. What reason did the engineer from Cadent give you for capping off the supply? Under Gas Safe Regulations they are supposed to inform you of an unsafe situation:

    https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/help-and-advice/gas-safety-in-the-home/warning-labels/

    and, if required, label the unsafe appliance. This is the key piece of information contained in the link:

    ESP Visits

    If the Gas Emergency Service Provider has been out to your property as a result of an emergency visit (such as a smell of gas or fumes) and cannot confirm that an appliance is safe, they may also attach a ‘Danger Do Not Use’ warning label to the installation/appliance and issue you with an appropriate warning notice.

    Quote: If the ESP has issued you with one of these notices, you’ll be advised not to use the appliance until an appropriately qualified Gas Safe registered engineer has checked it. It is the homeowner’s responsibility to ensure the installation is checked. The registered engineer should keep you (or your landlord where appropriate) informed of the actions they’re taking in the interests of your safety. If you have any concerns over this, you can contact us. Unquote

    If there is a disagreement between Cadent and the Landlord's GSR about the capping then, in my view, this is for them to resolve between them. If there was a genuine reason for the capping (ie; an unsafe situation that was subsequently rectified) then, again in my opinion, the bill for the work and a Gas Safe Certificate sits with your Landlord.

    I would like to think that no GSR engineer would put people at risk by issuing a knowingly false Gas Safe Certificate.

    Before going back to your Landlord, I suggest that you contact Cadent and ask them why the supply was capped. If necessary, ask them to provide written confirmation of the reasons for the capping. Armed with that information, only you can decide whether it is worth taking your Landlord on for £50.
  • Owain_Moneysaver
    Owain_Moneysaver Posts: 11,357
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    Forumite
    Gas hobs can produce small amounts of carbon monoxide in normal use; it's not usually a problem because they're used intermittently and kitchens are usually well-ventilated (and gas regs determine the room size and ventilation required; on commercial premises extractor fans are interlinked with hobs so hobs can't be used without extraction).

    CO is produced during incomplete combustion and if the hob was left on very low the very small flames may not have allowed complete combustion.

    It was your error, rather than a fault in the appliance provided by your landlord. And £50 is actually a very reasonable charge. You could argue it, but in the longer term do you want to stay in the property or renew your tenancy?

    If the Landlord's Certificate was still in its year of validity the gas fitter could have reconnected the gas and checked the hob without checking the fire, but the Landlord's Certificate would not have had its validity extended.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977
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    edited 17 June 2018 at 8:39PM
    The root cause of the problem, which led to the engineer's visit, was
    my boyfriend had left one of the gas hob rings on after cooking dinner
    You are therefore responsible for the consequential cost.

    What's more, after leaving the gas hob on, you compounded the problem by calling out Cadent. This was
    a) your decision and
    b) unecessary.


    Your landlord is not liable for your mis-use of an appliance, or your subsequent poor decision.

    Switching off the gas and opening the windows would have solved the problem.
  • B_Penny
    B_Penny Posts: 4
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    Newbie
    edited 24 June 2018 at 4:21PM
    I'm a gas engineer.

    A gas ring left of low burning completely will not cause excess carbon monoxide, it certainly will create carbon dioxide, however a domestic ring on low will be approximately 0.75kw, advantageous ventilation in properties (air that gets in around windows and doors is sufficient for 7kw. By comparison a smouldering cigarette end gives off up to 1600 parts per million Carbon monoxide.

    Given the report you made I suspect the engineer capped your gas following a fumes report as he did not possess qualification CMDDA1, so the only action available to him under the gas industry unsafe situation procedure was to cut the gas supply.

    As you reported fumes in rented property featuring sleeping accommodation an engineer qualified to CMDDA1 is required to investigate, before leaving the gas on, as the source of the carbon monoxide maybe ingressing from outside or a neighbour's property, these inspections and reports are generally £200-£300.

    The attending engineer charging £50, I strongly suspect was working out of scope. It is not sufficient to apply Gas Safety Installation & Use Regulation 26, Section 9 checks to establish whether the property is safe, as I said, the source of the carbon monoxide may not be in your property.

    You are within your rights to complain about the £50 bill given this, you can ask if the engineer holds CMDDA1? If not you can complain to the Gas Safe Register that the engineer is working 'out of scope', however realistically this is likely to cause you trouble with the landlord.

    I would be pragmatic and consider paying the bill. I would also check the carbon monoxide alarms are correctly working, if they are a hard wired linked system I would purchased a battery one from a supermarket, fire angel or Honeywell, as an insurance, place it 2m above the floor outside your bedrooms. As a fault with one sensor would sound all three on a linked system, if the alarm activates again yet your battery one does not, you are within your rights to reject as consequential bills.

    Hope that helps.
  • societys_child
    societys_child Posts: 7,110
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    I agree you shouldn't have to pay, your boyfriend should . . .
  • pooch
    pooch Posts: 828 Forumite
    B_Penny wrote: »
    I'm a gas engineer.

    A gas ring left of low burning completely will not cause excess carbon monoxide, it certainly will create carbon dioxide, however a domestic ring on low will be approximately 0.75kw, advantageous ventilation in properties (air that gets in around windows and doors is sufficient for 7kw. By comparison a smouldering cigarette end gives off up to 1600 parts per million Carbon monoxide.

    Given the report you made I suspect the engineer capped your gas following a fumes report as he did not possess qualification CMDDA1, so the only action available to him under the gas industry unsafe situation procedure was to cut the gas supply.

    As you reported fumes in rented property featuring sleeping accommodation an engineer qualified to CMDDA1 is required to investigate, before leaving the gas on, as the source of the carbon monoxide maybe ingressing from outside or a neighbour's property, these inspections and reports are generally £200-£300.

    The attending engineer charging £50, I strongly suspect was working out of scope. It is not sufficient to apply Gas Safety Installation & Use Regulation 26, Section 9 checks to establish whether the property is safe, as I said, the source of the carbon monoxide may not be in your property.

    You are within your rights to complain about the £50 bill given this, you can ask if the engineer holds CMDDA1? If not you can complain to the Gas Safe Register that the engineer is working 'out of scope', however realistically this is likely to cause you trouble with the landlord.

    I would be pragmatic and consider paying the bill. I would also check the carbon monoxide alarms are correctly working, if they are a hard wired linked system I would purchased a battery one from a supermarket, fire angel or Honeywell, as an insurance, place it 2m above the floor outside your bedrooms. As a fault with one sensor would sound all three on a linked system, if the alarm activates again yet your battery one does not, you are within your rights to reject as consequential bills.

    Hope that helps.

    Welcome back (both you and the thread) :cool:

    I guess the £50 charged was the standard call out fee for the gas engineer.

    If you read the OP again, you will see the landlord was required to call out the gas engineer, due to actions by the tenant (incl. the tenant's friends & family) which ultimately resulted in the gas supply being capped.

    The landlord's gas engineer attended and reconnected the supply.
    Would you have done that for no charge???
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