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    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 8:15 AM
    • 16Posts
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    thisisme2000
    Is this financial abuse? or am i over reacting?
    • #1
    • 12th Feb 19, 8:15 AM
    Is this financial abuse? or am i over reacting? 12th Feb 19 at 8:15 AM
    Hi everyone,


    I'm a long term reader of the forum but haven't posted. I am sorry for this Is LONG!!


    I'm keen for another perspective on my situation, and given the situation I don't feel I can involve family or friends as they are likely to have a biased opinion.


    I'm married for over 7 years, 2 young children. We both work, myself earning around 36k and him about 37k.


    Since we bought our current home the mortgage is in my name (as he had an error on his credit file due to an issue with the last house - now resolved but wouldn't be in time for our house purchase) This was 2 years ago.
    I also pay the council tax, all of the kids clubs, buy all the kids clothes, I pay a personal loan for a large purchase we made together (I don't want to say what as I feel it may identify me - I know its a big world but I'm nervous re posting this). I take home approx. 1700 and my essential outgoings are around 1650 - doesn't leave me with much.
    He pays gas, electric and childcare - childcare is less than £200 per month, gas and electric - I don't know how much this is right now.


    In our previous home, the mortgage was joint named, my parents gave us a deposit, the bill came out of his account but I paid for the childcare (which was way more than the mortgage at the time as both were at a childminder). I always had to ask him for money before the month ran out and when I think about it now I started to become really low in mood around that time.


    Since moving again, I still have to ask him for money at the end of the month. I suggested several times that we should have a bills account and each pay a % of our salary (say50%) into this to cover it and some more for treats or saving etc. For some reason he has never been into the idea.


    I've found it harder and harder to ask him for money each month, so as a result I have been using my credit card, kidding myself on that everything was fine and under control. I have accumulated some debt, and when I gave myself a kick up the !!! and moved it to a 0% card and cut it up I took a hard look at my finances,( I have secured a new job which I will start soon , its a pay rise with significant benefits, so I will have more income to pay the card off quicker) - I am left with very little at the end of the month and forced to have to ask for "spendies".
    He has a personal loan, which he says was accumulated costs from when we last moved, and he took out another to clear it but didn't - he says he has been keeping it "just in case" - I am really not all that sure what this loan was really used for. He know tells me he has been keeping this money, just in case I messed up again (I had debt years ago but paid it off with an inheritance)


    I have told him about the credit card, saying that we need to split the household bills as I cant keep pretending that I have more money than I do, and I shouldn't have to ask for money from him, as I find it extremely hard to do this for whatever reason...


    His solution is that I should have my salary paid into his bank account as its the only way he can trust me again. I suggested again a joint account which we both agree a monthly budget for "free spending each" and the rest goes on the necessities or debt/savings. He says he would feel better if it was all in his account. He will transfer me an allowance weekly or monthly and he will control the rest.


    In my gut this feels very wrong, however I know I betrayed his trust by spending on my credit card and maybe this is the only way I will have his trust again.
    On the other hand, I am a grown woman who made a mistake, realised it and is rectifying it within my means - how am I expected to survive on such a small amount each month?


    Is this the punishment for messing up? should I just get on with it?


    A quick Google search tells me that anyone who demands you hand over your salary, doesn't pay half of the household bills, makes you ask for money but freely spends on themselves are portraying financial abuse, or at the very least bullying...? Maybe I am "catastrophising" I do know I have made mistakes.


    If your still reading - thanks!
    If you have time Id really appreciate an opinion
Page 4
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 2:28 PM
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    Comms69
    I get this, however this is a mutual agreement and that's the difference. Being told "I cant trust you unless you give me your entire salary to manage" Doesn't make me feel safe, it makes me feel scared..


    On the other hand, if I get "an allowance" - then I probably stand to be better off in my pocket weekly than I am now and at least he contributes to half of all the bills - but at what cost to my mentality...?
    Originally posted by thisisme2000


    Yes I get that, but again i'll quickly turn this round.


    He isn't happy with your solution; which is why communication and compromise are key.


    Neither of you will get what you want, as soon as you both accept that you might get something that you can live with.
    • april_hunt
    • By april_hunt 12th Feb 19, 2:33 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    april_hunt
    I get this, however this is a mutual agreement and that's the difference. Being told "I cant trust you unless you give me your entire salary to manage" Doesn't make me feel safe, it makes me feel scared..


    On the other hand, if I get "an allowance" - then I probably stand to be better off in my pocket weekly than I am now and at least he contributes to half of all the bills - but at what cost to my mentality...?
    Originally posted by thisisme2000

    my dad gets pocket money only because he has no idea how to use the card, my mum deals with all the finances and god forbid anything happened.
    I wouldn't let anybody tell me that. I would personally sit down with your partner but right down your income monthly what you pay out for and what you have left then ask him what is his contribution to the house etc, my partner knows I may for a majority but him paying his debt is more important to get sorted but still manages to put money in where he can.
    Give it ago and whats the worse that can happen he has a 5min paddy like a child better to be honest than anything else.
    • paddy's mum
    • By paddy's mum 12th Feb 19, 2:35 PM
    • 3,691 Posts
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    paddy's mum
    1/ Being told "I cant trust you unless you give me your entire salary to manage


    2/ at least he would contribute [my alteration] half of all the bills
    Originally posted by thisisme2000
    1/ He is in debt himself and is secretive about where his money is going which kind of shoots this argument down in flames, doesn't it?

    2/ You hope he would but actually, given his secretiveness and lack of transparency and lack of equality and disinclination to play honest injun, how on earth would you know?
    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 2:36 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    thisisme2000
    Yes I get that, but again i'll quickly turn this round.


    He isn't happy with your solution; which is why communication and compromise are key.


    Neither of you will get what you want, as soon as you both accept that you might get something that you can live with.
    Originally posted by Comms69

    yes communication is key - can only try!
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 12th Feb 19, 2:37 PM
    • 1,232 Posts
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    seashore22
    I disagree; and we're all entitled to our own opinions.


    The fact that you wont specify your concerns or discuss anything I've written; instead just repeating the same mantra, suggests that this isn't in anyway about what the OP wants, but rather what you believe they need.


    That is disempowering towards the OP.


    In any case, my sympathies for your difficulties in the past.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    This is my last post to you Comms as it won't be helping the op one bit.

    The situation is happening now and not in the past. Not me, but someone I love and care about. It's not my story to tell and justice hasn't happened yet, so if you don't mind I won't satisfy your curiosity.

    I have zero interest in convincing you of my situation or the facts of domestic abuse, in all it's forms, which you seem woefully ignorant of.

    I don't know, any more than you do, what is exactly going on here, but on the surface the op has some cause for concern.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 3:13 PM
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    Comms69
    This is my last post to you Comms as it won't be helping the op one bit. - I wont speak for the OP, but my impression is that she is someone keen to hear many perspectives

    The situation is happening now and not in the past. Not me, but someone I love and care about. It's not my story to tell and justice hasn't happened yet, so if you don't mind I won't satisfy your curiosity. - I literally didn't once ask you what happened?!

    I have zero interest in convincing you of my situation or the facts of domestic abuse, in all it's forms, which you seem woefully ignorant of. - I don't believe labelling every person in a difficult relationship as either victim or abuser is in anyway productive; clearly you think that's ignorant.

    I don't know, any more than you do, what is exactly going on here, but on the surface the op has some cause for concern.
    Originally posted by seashore22


    Indeed, so my default position is to not call people abusers; silly, ignorant me.
    • rach_k
    • By rach_k 12th Feb 19, 3:22 PM
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    rach_k
    He doesn't feel you can be trusted with his money, but he trusts you well enough to pay the mortgage and everything for the kids? That doesn't make sense. If he didn't trust you to pay for things, he'd make sure you were paying things that were less important.

    If you don't want to pay him your money (understandable) and he doesn't want a joint account, can you at least split your expenses more evenly between you? If he won't tell you exact amounts, go for averages for your size family - if his bills are more, he can correct it! If he won't agree to that, I'd suggest a straight swap for 6 months of the year. He can pay your bills and you can pay his. See how fair he thinks it is then... and you'd only be paying a couple of bills so he'd surely be able to trust you.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 12th Feb 19, 6:02 PM
    • 17,109 Posts
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    tesuhoha
    What is the difference between you two having a joint account and one which is in his name but you can see into it. The difference is you have given up any control of the finances over to him and the thing you have to ask yourself is, do you trust him to run the finances responsibly and pay all the bills? Do you trust him to keep you out of debt? Do you trust him to have your best interests at heart? Do you trust him not to do some kind of financial dirty on you? Do you know him well enough to know if he is up to anything? Is he better at handling money than you? What is the reason that he should be in control of the family finances, other than he wants to be?



    It does sound controlling to me, because he doesn't seem to have handled his own finances any wiser than yourself.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best






    • financegeek
    • By financegeek 12th Feb 19, 6:40 PM
    • 130 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    financegeek
    Not over reacting
    as someone who was in a financially abusive relationship, this does sound very controlling to me.

    from an outside perspective this is how i see it:


    • You are the main earner (or will be shortly)
    • you are responsible for the majority of mortgage / household bills (committed expenses)
    • you do the majority of the housework / childcare etc
    • in trying to afford the committed expenditure you ran up credit card debt. you have declared this to your husband and have plans to rectify this


    • Your Husband is not named on the mortgage / property deeds due to previous bad credit
    • your husband has unspecified debt that he won't communicate to you about
    • your husband contributes less than his share of the committed expenditure
    • your husband does less than his share of the housework / childcare

    yet despite all the above, your husband wants to take control of your finances as well? You're right in thinking that's not a good idea, he's not pulling his weight currently from any perspective, so why would that change when he has control?

    If he's not communicating with you now about his finances, do you think he'll tell you what he's spent YOUR salary on?

    You say he'll give you an allowance. What happens if he 'forgets' or online banking is down, or you want to buy something overbudget that's urgent? You will be reliant on him for pretty much everything.

    If you decide to sit down and discuss finances i'd go further than a statement of affairs and suggest you both take the last 3 months bank statements / credit card statements with you, that way there's no hiding what you've been spending.

    I'm not sure what the rest of your marriage is like, but if he genuinely refuses to discuss finances any further with you or see a marriage counsellor I'd be writing a list of pros and cons for staying together / splitting up.

    You are in a much stronger position than he is, so although the thought is probably terrifying, don't let the rest of your life be compromised through fear of leaving him.

    Everyone hopes for a happy marriage, but don't let that certificate hold you prisoner. unfortunately people do change and you only get one life, so spend it with someone who's worth it.

    no matter what happens, i hope it all works out for you OP.Good luck
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 12th Feb 19, 6:46 PM
    • 5,741 Posts
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    theoretica
    I had a word with him at the weekend around this request re him controlling all of the money - I said it feels wrong - he said I know but I think its the only way. I suggest the joint account as before re splitting everything, he says he would just feel better if it was all in his account and I could log in and see it. And that we would do a budget for both of us to stick to, but I don't see why this needs to be done out of his account and not a joint one? he says he is worried ill just go nuts and spend a fortune...?
    Originally posted by thisisme2000

    Just going back to this - this suggestion might be useful to take up to get a budget for the two of you. You would at least have the budget/SOA details you have been wanting. And they should be the same for not putting any money in his account as if he did manage to get it all.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • charlie792
    • By charlie792 12th Feb 19, 7:39 PM
    • 1,668 Posts
    • 5,326 Thanks
    charlie792
    Me and OH each have our own personal accounts our salary gets paid into but have always had a joint account for bills, everything split 50/50 except where finances haven't allowed or we've needed to sub the other one some cash throughout the month. same with our day to day spending, all on one credit card (additional cardholder) we equally pay any household expenses, days out etc and then each pay anything personal (clothes etc).


    but playing devils advocate here, I am responsible for all finances in the household, not because OH goes nuts and spends etc but because he's not so financially savvy - he's just not interested and doesn't care what rate his savings are at he's happy as long as the bills get paid on time, plus he knows I'm a mega worrier about money so it's just easier for me to take control. He has his own access to his accounts but rarely does, I take the money needed for the bills, credit card etc and transfer to our joint account, I then split out the rest between his various savings accounts and put a bit (you could argue an allowance) to his day to day personal account for any spending he would rather keep private.
    my point is, I wouldnt consider that financial abuse, nor does OH but someone from the outside could see it that I was controlling his money. Maybe the OP's husband thinks the OP is struggling and suggesting money paid into his account is his way of "helping"? but of course we don't know the way things were said.

    admittedly I dont understand the reluctancy for a joint account but maybe he's been burned in the past?
    regardless I think a frank conversation needs to be had about how it's making you feel and that some agreement needs to be made of joint expenses, because from what the OP has said it would seem that the majority of costs are being paid by only one party.
    MFW 2019 #111 £0/ £8100
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    • Les79
    • By Les79 12th Feb 19, 8:43 PM
    • 1,147 Posts
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    Les79
    (I've tidied this up somewhat - so OPs replies in blue, mine in red)
    Originally posted by Comms69

    You know, you wouldn't have to "tidy this up somewhat" if you didn't do that silly red text all of the time!! I know WHY you do it, but it is really hard to address your points.

    OP I agree that I wouldn't pay my salary to my OH either. But it's not financial abuse. It's a difference of opinions in your marriage
    See how much easier this method is to address certain bits? Not that I'm going to add much other than to agree with you on that specific point, but a bit on the fence about the abuse bit...
    Last edited by Les79; 12-02-2019 at 8:46 PM.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 12th Feb 19, 8:56 PM
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    Les79
    ...
    Originally posted by charlie792
    I agree to quite an extent with what you've said.


    Me + partner have a similar arrangement. One takes control of all money and money is transferred into one single (non-joint) account to sort out core bills etc. The rest is drip-fed as and when as a sort of "pocket money".


    A joint account would probably be a good idea like, but it would be a bit of an effort to set up and we aren't really sure how the bills would work etc. The current arrangement works fine for us.


    That being said, it only works because of TRUST. I've only glanced OP's posts but it does feel like there's an element of mis-trust there, and if that's the case then OP is perfectly within their rights to stick with their own account or asking for a joint one. Theoretically, a partner should be respectful of their partner's wishes and make some effort to accommodate.


    There's something to be said with just blindly trusting the partner here too.... As long as the main bills are covered for one month in the case of financial disaster (be it through a credit card or lending from family etc), you can give full control of the finances to partner and keep your eyes peeled for any red flags (bills going unpaid, no access to your money etc). A test of sorts.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 10:41 PM
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    Comms69
    You know, you wouldn't have to "tidy this up somewhat" if you didn't do that silly red text all of the time!! I know WHY you do it, but it is really hard to address your points.

    See how much easier this method is to address certain bits? Not that I'm going to add much other than to agree with you on that specific point, but a bit on the fence about the abuse bit...
    Originally posted by Les79
    Thanks, next time I need advice in my posting style; you’re top of the list... 😀😀
    • Les79
    • By Les79 13th Feb 19, 6:50 PM
    • 1,147 Posts
    • 1,320 Thanks
    Les79
    Thanks, next time I need advice in my posting style; you’re top of the list... 😀😀
    Originally posted by Comms69



    Nah, don't put me on the top of the list. Put those who want your advice on the top of the list.


    If you have to "tidy up" a reply then you may have failed in that respect.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 13th Feb 19, 8:02 PM
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    Comms69
    Nah, don't put me on the top of the list. Put those who want your advice on the top of the list.


    If you have to "tidy up" a reply then you may have failed in that respect.
    Originally posted by Les79
    I put red text because it makes it clear what I’m replying to.

    I tidied up because the OP also replied in red; making it difficult to read.

    I tidied up the OPs reply; not my own. Not sure how I failed?...
    • Spendy Spenderson
    • By Spendy Spenderson 13th Feb 19, 8:05 PM
    • 30 Posts
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    Spendy Spenderson
    I agree with Financegeek's post above, especially the bullet points.


    Why is there such an imbalance in who pays what, when you both earn such pretty much the same wage? What is the reason that you have taken on almost all of the bills, resulting in him contributing a lot less to the 'necessary' or 'basic' outgoings, and gets to budget (and control by the sounds of it) the 'entertainment' stuff?


    If he's dead set against a joint account (cannot understand why tbh) then I would start by drawing up an SOA for ALL the household bills. For those bills he pays where you don't know the exact amount (of which there's hardly any) then guesstimate. It should be possible to get an accurate picture of all household bills - mortgage, council tax, water, electricity, gas, tv license, insurance, childcare, internet / tv, etc. Then divide it by 2. This is how much each of you should be contributing. If he does not want to manage this by you both putting this amount into a joint account for bills, then surely some of the bills can be reallocated to him to pay, so that it is fairly distributed in this 50/50 manner. You are then both equally contributing to all household bills and will both have money leftover to save / spend / treat eachother and the children as you see fit.
    • babyblade41
    • By babyblade41 13th Feb 19, 8:39 PM
    • 590 Posts
    • 646 Thanks
    babyblade41
    sadly and totally irrelevant to OP but I spent many years being chipped away at , just over 2 decades.
    It is very difficult to know whether other things are happening as OP doesn't say and more importantly may not realise , or it maybe OP is taking the OH's remarks and reading more into them than what is really meant.. who knows.

    My only advice if it is the former and possibly think it maybe for OP to post reluctantly to random strangers , it may mean more going on and this is possibly a tip of the iceberg

    Due to something similar happening to me it turned me into a total control freak when I finally left .

    Although I did eventually re-marry it has been tough on my poor suffering OH . My finances are mine alone , no one knows anything that goes on in them and it's my house bought and paid for by me and I pay all the bills food and everything...

    I never want to lose that control that for so long was totally taken away from me but slowly . I left with nothing and started again and that's what has made me into a complete money controller.. not of my OH's but over my finances and the erosion of confidence that is a symptom of what my ex's coercive control did to me .

    Why not suggest some relationship counselling, even if your partner does not want to attend, it may give you a better perspective than on here, although everyones opinions are constructive and it opens up debate

    A professional may help you unravel it for you and other things may come to light you hadn't thought was happening or it might put your fears to bed and the relationship can get better.

    Whatever is or isn't happening communication must happen to get to the bottom of things.

    Hope to hear some more positive news from you in the future ,
    • chesky
    • By chesky 13th Feb 19, 10:48 PM
    • 1,125 Posts
    • 1,917 Thanks
    chesky
    OP - do you ever see each other's bank statements, either paper or online? Or is this a no-no nowadays. My husband and I used to leave them lying around so there was nothing hidden. I find it difficult to understand how a family unit can operate successfully if there's such secrecy regarding finances.
    • belfastgirl23
    • By belfastgirl23 14th Feb 19, 6:44 PM
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    belfastgirl23
    A lot of good advice here.

    I’d just observe that this is a real sleight of hand as far as I can see. You ask him to contribute more and he makes it all about it being your fault for running up CC bills. And therefore makes you feel guilty. At least you are sticking to your guns which is good. And if he brings it up again I’d say you need to let him know you’re on to him and you aren’t having it. You could also, if you wanted, be clear that you know he is hiding things and that eventually it will come out in the open, it’s up to him whether that’s now or when a bailiff turns up but he can’t hide forever. And just let him think on it.

    In the end you can only control what you do. Definitely do not give him access to your money, I think that’s one thing that everyone agrees on. Beyond that you need to figure out whether you’re prepared to let this go or not. And that has to be your call. If you were a single parent you would probably be in the same position re paying for everything with the kids. So is there anything he is adding to your life? Only you can figure that out.

    How lucky are you that he house is in your name though!

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