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    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 9:15 AM
    • 16Posts
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    thisisme2000
    Is this financial abuse? or am i over reacting?
    • #1
    • 12th Feb 19, 9:15 AM
    Is this financial abuse? or am i over reacting? 12th Feb 19 at 9:15 AM
    Hi everyone,


    I'm a long term reader of the forum but haven't posted. I am sorry for this Is LONG!!


    I'm keen for another perspective on my situation, and given the situation I don't feel I can involve family or friends as they are likely to have a biased opinion.


    I'm married for over 7 years, 2 young children. We both work, myself earning around 36k and him about 37k.


    Since we bought our current home the mortgage is in my name (as he had an error on his credit file due to an issue with the last house - now resolved but wouldn't be in time for our house purchase) This was 2 years ago.
    I also pay the council tax, all of the kids clubs, buy all the kids clothes, I pay a personal loan for a large purchase we made together (I don't want to say what as I feel it may identify me - I know its a big world but I'm nervous re posting this). I take home approx. 1700 and my essential outgoings are around 1650 - doesn't leave me with much.
    He pays gas, electric and childcare - childcare is less than 200 per month, gas and electric - I don't know how much this is right now.


    In our previous home, the mortgage was joint named, my parents gave us a deposit, the bill came out of his account but I paid for the childcare (which was way more than the mortgage at the time as both were at a childminder). I always had to ask him for money before the month ran out and when I think about it now I started to become really low in mood around that time.


    Since moving again, I still have to ask him for money at the end of the month. I suggested several times that we should have a bills account and each pay a % of our salary (say50%) into this to cover it and some more for treats or saving etc. For some reason he has never been into the idea.


    I've found it harder and harder to ask him for money each month, so as a result I have been using my credit card, kidding myself on that everything was fine and under control. I have accumulated some debt, and when I gave myself a kick up the !!! and moved it to a 0% card and cut it up I took a hard look at my finances,( I have secured a new job which I will start soon , its a pay rise with significant benefits, so I will have more income to pay the card off quicker) - I am left with very little at the end of the month and forced to have to ask for "spendies".
    He has a personal loan, which he says was accumulated costs from when we last moved, and he took out another to clear it but didn't - he says he has been keeping it "just in case" - I am really not all that sure what this loan was really used for. He know tells me he has been keeping this money, just in case I messed up again (I had debt years ago but paid it off with an inheritance)


    I have told him about the credit card, saying that we need to split the household bills as I cant keep pretending that I have more money than I do, and I shouldn't have to ask for money from him, as I find it extremely hard to do this for whatever reason...


    His solution is that I should have my salary paid into his bank account as its the only way he can trust me again. I suggested again a joint account which we both agree a monthly budget for "free spending each" and the rest goes on the necessities or debt/savings. He says he would feel better if it was all in his account. He will transfer me an allowance weekly or monthly and he will control the rest.


    In my gut this feels very wrong, however I know I betrayed his trust by spending on my credit card and maybe this is the only way I will have his trust again.
    On the other hand, I am a grown woman who made a mistake, realised it and is rectifying it within my means - how am I expected to survive on such a small amount each month?


    Is this the punishment for messing up? should I just get on with it?


    A quick Google search tells me that anyone who demands you hand over your salary, doesn't pay half of the household bills, makes you ask for money but freely spends on themselves are portraying financial abuse, or at the very least bullying...? Maybe I am "catastrophising" I do know I have made mistakes.


    If your still reading - thanks!
    If you have time Id really appreciate an opinion
Page 3
    • SuperPikachu
    • By SuperPikachu 12th Feb 19, 1:53 PM
    • 233 Posts
    • 357 Thanks
    SuperPikachu
    Thanks so much everyone for your concerns ❤️

    I am concerned about his vagueness when I question his finances. He says he knows he over spends but he certainly has far more debt than I do and I don't punish him for it. He tells me how much they are for but I can't quite see where the rest of the money goes ��

    I'm going to present him with my soa and ask for the same from him.

    I'm also going to ask him if he wants to continue with the marriage or not - is he pushing me to this point so I refuse to hand over my money and then he says he can't trusr me so it's the end?
    The marriage is "ok" I'd say - I don't see much of him due to his working pattern but I do enjoy his company when he is in the mood for chatting.
    He does do some things that bother me - little annoyances but I know if I did the same he would have a moan.

    We definitely don't communicate as we used to. Did I stop trying first or did he stop listening first ? I'm not sure but I know I don't bother asking him things as often as I know he will just say "no" rather than have a discussion. I end up feeling annoyed and berated and therefore go in a "mood" and my mood ruins the rest of the day for everyone.
    Originally posted by thisisme2000
    All sounds pretty optimistic and fixable - good luck with everything.
    "Wild Pikachu appeared!"
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 12th Feb 19, 2:01 PM
    • 588 Posts
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    Soundgirlrocks
    OP, the more I think about this the more I suspect that he has serious money issues that he is trying to hide and is hoping by taking control of your money as well he can dig himself out of a hole without you finding out.
    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 2:11 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    thisisme2000
    OP, the more I think about this the more I suspect that he has serious money issues that he is trying to hide and is hoping by taking control of your money as well he can dig himself out of a hole without you finding out.
    Originally posted by Soundgirlrocks

    I'm starting to worry about the same thing...
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 2:41 PM
    • 6,978 Posts
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    Comms69
    Sorry, not interested in intellectual debate. Too real right now.- Perhaps not make comments like you did then?

    However it is pretty clear that the op's husband is controlling over money. - is he? So far all I've seen is a couple who have not communicated clearly their desired financial contributions Why else would he not want a joint account. - literally any of a dozen of reasons. He is also using past mistakes on the op's part to justify it. - So he's learning from experience? Again we only ever hear one side of the situation here. The op has also said that she has experienced low mood as a result of having to constantly ask for more money. Edit - these are red flags to me. - That's fine. You can choose to extricate yourself from such a relationship. Doesn't make it abuse

    The suggesting that she has a nice meal with her husband and not talk about money made me feel a bit sick, if I'm honest. - suggest you visit your GP. The OP has said she wants this marriage to work, constantly going on about the same topic is likely to drive them further apart Not because it's sugary, but because it's advice like this which makes women (and some men) put up with controlling partners long after they should have done something about it. - yes, ofcourse. Trying to fix a fractured relationship is also abuse/victimisation. The abused person thinks it's their job to make things right. It's not. - It's not. but here's a little tip: I DONT KNOW THE OP, I CANT TELL THE HUSBAND TO GRAB A BUNCH OF FLOWERS AND A BOTTLE OF WINE ON HIS WAY HOME...

    If this really is financial abuse then a pat on the head is not what the op needs.
    Originally posted by seashore22


    And if it's not (which I cant see any reason to think it is) the op doesn't need her fractured relationship being torn further apart - in particular by people who have their own agenda
    • paddy's mum
    • By paddy's mum 12th Feb 19, 2:43 PM
    • 3,647 Posts
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    paddy's mum

    I'm going to present him with my soa and ask for
    demand the same from him.
    Originally posted by thisisme2000
    I've corrected that for you

    He's in debt but critical of you to the point where you are afraid to speak and call yourself a betrayer. Sorry OP but the word for that is hypocrite.
    Last edited by paddy's mum; 12-02-2019 at 2:43 PM. Reason: typo
    • trailingspouse
    • By trailingspouse 12th Feb 19, 2:44 PM
    • 3,448 Posts
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    trailingspouse
    One other small point (well, maybe not so small). The OP's husband has suggested that if all her mony was in his account, she could access it online. This would be fraud - he would have to divulge his pin numbers etc to her, which he isn't supposed to do. Would be very easy for him to promise that she can access it, then to suddenly come over all law-abiding and 'really sorry, I'm not allowed to give you access after all' - and she wouldn't have a leg to stand on.


    OP - please look around you and take note of the other parts of your life that he controls (you've already mentioned holidays and days out).
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 2:47 PM
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    Comms69
    I've corrected that for you

    He's in debt but critical of you to the point where you are afraid to speak and call yourself a betrayer. Sorry OP but the word for that is hypocrite.
    Originally posted by paddy's mum


    Because one partner placing demands on another isn't at all controlling?... but the winky face make it ok.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 2:49 PM
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    Comms69
    One other small point (well, maybe not so small). The OP's husband has suggested that if all her mony was in his account, she could access it online. This would be fraud - It wouldn't be fraud in the slightest. It would remove your protection from fraud with the bank, but fundamentally that is not at all the same thing - he would have to divulge his pin numbers etc to her, which he isn't supposed to do. Would be very easy for him to promise that she can access it, then to suddenly come over all law-abiding - no such law exists and 'really sorry, I'm not allowed to give you access after all' - and she wouldn't have a leg to stand on.


    OP - please look around you and take note of the other parts of your life that he controls (you've already mentioned holidays and days out).
    Originally posted by trailingspouse


    must be part of the "I Just Made It Up Act 2019"
    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 2:50 PM
    • 16 Posts
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    thisisme2000
    I've corrected that for you

    He's in debt but critical of you to the point where you are afraid to speak and call yourself a betrayer. Sorry OP but the word for that is hypocrite.
    Originally posted by paddy's mum

    hehe that made me smile
    • paddy's mum
    • By paddy's mum 12th Feb 19, 2:51 PM
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    paddy's mum
    While I can agree with Comms69 in particular that nobody can see all sides just from an OP, there are enough warning bells going off in enough experienced heads to warrant almost all of the advice given so far in this thread.

    It is the husband's 'vagueness' that worries me most of all and if both parties are in debt (to whatever degree) then clearly something is wrong with their financial structures and that alone is enough reason to insist on openness and honesty.

    Putting all the money into one person's hands would be folly - what's to stop him allowing OP to view online 5 or 6 times and then quietly closing the account and moving (by then, HIS!) funds elsewhere.

    OP, you cannot keep lurching on in this frightened, insecure fashion. It's not good for you, for him, for the children or for the marriage. He may not wish to talk but you have to find a way to make him see just what risks with the future he is taking.

    I shall be thinking of you all.
    • Tammykitty
    • By Tammykitty 12th Feb 19, 2:53 PM
    • 740 Posts
    • 1,493 Thanks
    Tammykitty
    I was thinking this OP, check your tax. I only earn 17k a year and bring home around 1,100. I know you will get taxed more than me but you should be bringing home a lot more than that!!
    Originally posted by charlotte1994
    You are both taxed at the same rate.
    Originally posted by Comms69

    Although this is true, that the actual tax percentage is the same, the % of wages paid as tax isn't due to personal allowance.


    2 people earning 17k and 1 earning 34k and both with a student loan


    Person 1 - Net wages 14,942 (1,245 per month)
    Person 2 - net wages 25,092 (2,091 per month)


    So person 1 receives 88% of their salary and person 2 receives 74% of theirs.


    One of the many problems with calculating things on household income - one house with 2 people on 17k has more disposable income than a house with 1 person on 34k
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 2:54 PM
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    Comms69
    Although this is true, that the actual tax percentage is the same, the % of wages paid as tax isn't due to personal allowance.


    2 people earning 17k and 1 earning 34k and both with a student loan


    Person 1 - Net wages 14,942 (1,245 per month)
    Person 2 - net wages 25,092 (2,091 per month)


    So person 1 receives 88% of their salary and person 2 receives 74% of theirs.


    One of the many problems with calculating things on household income - one house with 2 people on 17k has more disposable income than a house with 1 person on 34k
    Originally posted by Tammykitty


    Well that's obvious. This is because of the individual tax free allowance.
    • april_hunt
    • By april_hunt 12th Feb 19, 2:57 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    april_hunt
    Me and my partner have a joint account we agree to half all bills so as long as the money is in the joint it will go towards the bills and anything else we need we pay for from our accounts i.e. I do the food shop and he does the gas electric or fuel.


    When I thought enough was enough by the amount of debt he was in I said about moving the money into my account then take out what he actually needed but he's managed to sort himself out himself with abit of nagging from me and opened up to me that nagging him reminded him and would prefer it that way. My partner hates talking money and leaves everything to me which I can't really say I like as I don't do well being under pressure.


    I'd definitely see if you can swap and get any of your outgoings cheaper for a start and then work out your spendings again. I've got to say I've been using a lot of my own savings to pay for things as were getting married in a few months it will get paid back eventually but I have to tell myself not to use it and be abit more harsh on myself with money again. I know I can do it and I'm sure you have the determination to do it too. Good luck
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 2:59 PM
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    Comms69
    While I can agree with Comms69 in particular that nobody can see all sides just from an OP, there are enough warning bells going off in enough experienced heads to warrant almost all of the advice given so far in this thread.

    It is the husband's 'vagueness' that worries me most of all and if both parties are in debt (to whatever degree) then clearly something is wrong with their financial structures and that alone is enough reason to insist on openness and honesty.

    Putting all the money into one person's hands would be folly - what's to stop him allowing OP to view online 5 or 6 times and then quietly closing the account and moving (by then, HIS!) funds elsewhere. - I agree, I wouldn't do it either; and I said this at least twice.

    OP, you cannot keep lurching on in this frightened, insecure fashion. It's not good for you, for him, for the children or for the marriage. He may not wish to talk but you have to find a way to make him see just what risks with the future he is taking.

    I shall be thinking of you all.
    Originally posted by paddy's mum


    My issue is the need to label everything and the victim mentality that seems to be growing more and more in society.


    It's very destructive; in particular to people who want to maintain the traditional values of family and of marriage.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 3:01 PM
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    Comms69
    Me and my partner have a joint account we agree to half all bills so as long as the money is in the joint it will go towards the bills and anything else we need we pay for from our accounts i.e. I do the food shop and he does the gas electric or fuel.


    When I thought enough was enough by the amount of debt he was in I said about moving the money into my account then take out what he actually needed but he's managed to sort himself out himself with abit of nagging from me and opened up to me that nagging him reminded him and would prefer it that way. My partner hates talking money and leaves everything to me which I can't really say I like as I don't do well being under pressure.


    I'd definitely see if you can swap and get any of your outgoings cheaper for a start and then work out your spendings again. I've got to say I've been using a lot of my own savings to pay for things as were getting married in a few months it will get paid back eventually but I have to tell myself not to use it and be abit more harsh on myself with money again. I know I can do it and I'm sure you have the determination to do it too. Good luck
    Originally posted by april_hunt


    See a perfectly reasonable solution to a problem, achieved by communicating.


    But in some eyes here you would be financially abusing your partner; what a strange world eh.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 12th Feb 19, 3:13 PM
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    seashore22
    And if it's not (which I cant see any reason to think it is) the op doesn't need her fractured relationship being torn further apart - in particular by people who have their own agenda
    Originally posted by Comms69
    I don't have an agenda thanks very much. I have personal experience of how damaging this sort of behaviour can be in a relationship and I care that people get the help they need. I'm not trying to big up the op's concerns, but I not going to downplay them either.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 3:21 PM
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    Comms69
    I don't have an agenda thanks very much. I have personal experience of how damaging this sort of behaviour can be in a relationship and I care that people get the help they need. I'm not trying to big up the op's concerns, but I not going to downplay them either.
    Originally posted by seashore22


    I disagree; and we're all entitled to our own opinions.


    The fact that you wont specify your concerns or discuss anything I've written; instead just repeating the same mantra, suggests that this isn't in anyway about what the OP wants, but rather what you believe they need.


    That is disempowering towards the OP.


    In any case, my sympathies for your difficulties in the past.
    • april_hunt
    • By april_hunt 12th Feb 19, 3:23 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    april_hunt
    Yeah I suppose I would but we've done well to achieve what we have and I'm proud of him. Sometimes it just takes a little push in the right direction
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 3:23 PM
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    Comms69
    Yeah I suppose I would but we've done well to achieve what we have and I'm proud of him. Sometimes it just takes a little push in the right direction
    Originally posted by april_hunt
    Totally agree with you, well done for sorting it out
    • thisisme2000
    • By thisisme2000 12th Feb 19, 3:25 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    thisisme2000
    See a perfectly reasonable solution to a problem, achieved by communicating.


    But in some eyes here you would be financially abusing your partner; what a strange world eh.
    Originally posted by Comms69

    I get this, however this is a mutual agreement and that's the difference. Being told "I cant trust you unless you give me your entire salary to manage" Doesn't make me feel safe, it makes me feel scared..


    On the other hand, if I get "an allowance" - then I probably stand to be better off in my pocket weekly than I am now and at least he contributes to half of all the bills - but at what cost to my mentality...?
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