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    • Weeg
    • By Weeg 11th Feb 19, 6:28 PM
    • 18Posts
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    Weeg
    looking for advice about child access
    • #1
    • 11th Feb 19, 6:28 PM
    looking for advice about child access 11th Feb 19 at 6:28 PM
    Hi , Im wondering if anyone can help answer my question.A Mum has full custody of her kids(father is not in their life at all) , her mum (the gran) takes the kids every 2nd weekend for a night or two. Her sister recently met a new partner and the social work have stopped the gran seeing the kids until a background check is done on him. the sister has her own home and does not live with her mum (the gran) nor with her sister (the mum). How is this Legal?
Page 1
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 11th Feb 19, 7:39 PM
    • 5,872 Posts
    • 4,449 Thanks
    sheramber
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 19, 7:39 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 19, 7:39 PM
    How are social work involved?

    Are the children under social care?
    • elsien
    • By elsien 11th Feb 19, 7:41 PM
    • 18,342 Posts
    • 46,659 Thanks
    elsien
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 19, 7:41 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 19, 7:41 PM
    Any sort of child protection procedures in place?
    Social services wouldn't be involved unless there's more to this than you're letting on.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 11th Feb 19, 8:05 PM
    • 7,162 Posts
    • 7,639 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 19, 8:05 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 19, 8:05 PM
    Hi , Im wondering if anyone can help answer my question.A Mum has full custody of her kids(father is not in their life at all) , her mum (the gran) takes the kids every 2nd weekend for a night or two. Her sister recently met a new partner and the social work have stopped the gran seeing the kids until a background check is done on him. the sister has her own home and does not live with her mum (the gran) nor with her sister (the mum). How is this Legal?
    Originally posted by Weeg


    Clearly for whatever reason you've missed out some major details.


    Why are social services involved?
    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 11th Feb 19, 8:07 PM
    • 1,393 Posts
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    HampshireH
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 19, 8:07 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 19, 8:07 PM
    Social workers don't just get involved. There has to be more to this
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 11th Feb 19, 9:14 PM
    • 7,110 Posts
    • 9,333 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 19, 9:14 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 19, 9:14 PM
    AS others have said, Social Services are not involved at all in most families, so this sounds like a situation where either the children are subject to Care Orders but are placed with Mum, in which case the social workers get to determine who can or can't have contact, or alternatively, they are involved due to concerns about the children and they have given advice rather than orders (although still not a good idea to ignore it)

    What's your involvement? If you are the mother or gran involved and genuinely are not clear why social services are involved, then ask them to explain, or ask your solicitor if you have one.
    • Ms Chocaholic
    • By Ms Chocaholic 11th Feb 19, 9:48 PM
    • 9,995 Posts
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    Ms Chocaholic
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 19, 9:48 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 19, 9:48 PM
    It's not clear from your post who's who but yes



    Is it that gran has 2 daughters, X & Y and gran looks after the two children of X on a regular basis every other weekend.

    Daughter Y has met a new partner. As a result of this, gran can't see the children of daughter X until a background check is done on partner of daughter Y.

    You must be missing something major out of the scenario I'm afraid, background checks aren't completed willy nilly and are only done if child protection procedures are being completed.
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till The End

    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
    • Weeg
    • By Weeg 12th Feb 19, 9:13 AM
    • 18 Posts
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    Weeg
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 19, 9:13 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 19, 9:13 AM
    the kids were with their dad until he finally got caught hurting them, Im not deliberately missing out details im only asking WHY the grans access could be stopped because her other daughter has met someone,she does not live with the kids nor the gran. The kids mum got full custody of her kids the gran helps by taking them for 1-2 nights every 2nd weekend. I know nothing about the social work policies and this is why im asking.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 9:17 AM
    • 7,162 Posts
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    Comms69
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 19, 9:17 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 19, 9:17 AM
    the kids were with their dad until he finally got caught hurting them, Im not deliberately missing out details im only asking WHY the grans access could be stopped because her other daughter has met someone,she does not live with the kids nor the gran. The kids mum got full custody of her kids the gran helps by taking them for 1-2 nights every 2nd weekend. I know nothing about the social work policies and this is why im asking.
    Originally posted by Weeg


    Right so the kids are subject to intervention by the state.


    The mum does NOT have full custody. (that term has no meaning in English law anyway). She is subject to controls by the state; not an autonomous parent.


    It's impossible to say WHY they've made this decision without more context.
    • Weeg
    • By Weeg 12th Feb 19, 10:19 AM
    • 18 Posts
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    Weeg
    That makes more sense thank you. Scottish law is different to English law is most ways. I was more confused as to how the kids aunt`s life had such a dramatic impact on the gran when she isnt in the same home. This would mean any/every person she meets will impact on the grans access to the kids. This is what i cant understand. Thank you for all the advice .xx
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 10:33 AM
    • 7,162 Posts
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    Comms69
    That makes more sense thank you. Scottish law is different to English law is most ways. I was more confused as to how the kids aunt`s life had such a dramatic impact on the gran when she isnt in the same home. This would mean any/every person she meets will impact on the grans access to the kids. This is what i cant understand. Thank you for all the advice .xx
    Originally posted by Weeg


    Yes, it's done for the benefit of the kids.


    I must add two points:


    1: Social services wont know that the sister has a new partner unless it's been mentioned to them - so presumably someone has?


    2: The father had 'custody' (for want of a better phrase) of the kids, why?
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 12th Feb 19, 1:47 PM
    • 5,872 Posts
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    sheramber
    It sounds like it is because the partner is a male and social services consider the children vulnerable.

    The partner could visit the gran with the sister and come into contact with the children.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 12th Feb 19, 1:51 PM
    • 7,110 Posts
    • 9,333 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    That makes more sense thank you. Scottish law is different to English law is most ways. I was more confused as to how the kids aunt`s life had such a dramatic impact on the gran when she isnt in the same home. This would mean any/every person she meets will impact on the grans access to the kids. This is what i cant understand. Thank you for all the advice .xx
    Originally posted by Weeg
    The short answer is that if you are not one of the parents concerned, you almost certainly don't have the full picture. It is highly unlikely that this is a blanket policy, there will be specific reasons why this is happening (or possibly, ran or mum or whoever you have been speaking to has misunderstood what they have been told)

    The advice ias the same. If you are one of the people directly involve,d ask the social worker or your solicitor to make sure that you do understand what you can and can't do, and why.

    If you are not directly involved, but someone who is is talking about this to you, advise them to clarify with the social worker or with their own solicitor so that they clearly understand what is happening.
    And for yourself, bear in mind that people are not always truthful and they may be mistaken, or misinterpret things, even if they are not consciously lying.
    • Weeg
    • By Weeg 12th Feb 19, 4:33 PM
    • 18 Posts
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    Weeg
    I tbh would not tell the sw anything. The mum was beaten into believing she was useless and unable to care for her kids. The father lied constantly and the mum felt she couldn`t go against him no matter what. I am the sister of the gran, i am aware of most of what has happened, without going into too much detail for obvious reasons,, I am shocked at what the SW allowed the father to do to the kids before they were finally removed. The kids do not want anything to do with the father because he hurt them to , the SW wouldn`t listen to the kids as the father told the SW the mum and gran had brain washed them (she only got to see them once a week supervised at that point) . The kids were removed when he broke the kids elbow and the police were called in by the hospital , he was charged but let off. My sister (the gran) just wants time with her grand kids and to help her daughter as she is a single parent and her mum is the only person the SW will allow to help . The kids are amazing and doing great considering the horrible start they had. Thank you again for your help , really appreciate it. xx
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Feb 19, 4:42 PM
    • 7,162 Posts
    • 7,639 Thanks
    Comms69
    I tbh would not tell the sw anything. The mum was beaten into believing she was useless and unable to care for her kids. The father lied constantly and the mum felt she couldn`t go against him no matter what. I am the sister of the gran, i am aware of most of what has happened, without going into too much detail for obvious reasons,, I am shocked at what the SW allowed the father to do to the kids before they were finally removed. - Surely you should be shocked at the mother, your sister and the rest of the family for not intervening sooner..?? The kids do not want anything to do with the father because he hurt them to , the SW wouldn`t listen to the kids as the father told the SW the mum and gran had brain washed them (she only got to see them once a week supervised at that point) . The kids were removed when he broke the kids elbow and the police were called in by the hospital , he was charged but let off. - No, there was insufficient evidence to convict. I doubt the police, nor the prosecutor were keen to let a child abuser 'off'. My sister (the gran) just wants time with her grand kids and to help her daughter as she is a single parent and her mum is the only person the SW will allow to help . The kids are amazing and doing great considering the horrible start they had. Thank you again for your help , really appreciate it. xx
    Originally posted by Weeg


    If a change in the care plan is required then as a family you should all present a case for this.


    I suspect this is quite a recent development, as social services must look at relaxing any restrictions on a regular basis.
    • mgdavid
    • By mgdavid 12th Feb 19, 6:27 PM
    • 6,030 Posts
    • 5,428 Thanks
    mgdavid
    .......... Scottish law is different to English law is most ways. ..........
    Originally posted by Weeg

    What's that got to do with it?
    Something else you've not mentioned?
    The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....
    • Weeg
    • By Weeg 12th Feb 19, 6:38 PM
    • 18 Posts
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    Weeg
    We did intervene and got called racists and liars . I do not live near by . I watched them bang their heads off brick walls and no matter what he did the SW defended him. Yeh I am shocked . One of the kids ended up in hosp AGAIN with burns on her face that was blistered and peeling. the excuse he gave was " she fell asleep on a fluffy covered hot water bottle " The SW seen this as a valid excuse. My sister contacted the burns unit and asked for advice on this very same scenario to be told the police would have been called as NO child would have slept through the pain of they burns. When the father is a charmer despite HIS neighbours telling the SW (they approached them to follow up on the report of the kids being on their own after school) that the kids would often be alone and outside their home because no one was there as the father was working in his shop. This is what they were up against and my niece finally got her kids back. My sister speaks up and questions their every move and this is what they did not like. one of them told my sister she had NO right asking advice on the same scenario with the burns unit. Every one is entitled to ask advice from anyone , she stated a scenario,,not the actual event using the kids names etc.
    • Weeg
    • By Weeg 12th Feb 19, 6:47 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Weeg
    Thank you comms69 xx. I think you have helped me understand a little more clearly, I will leave it at this thanks . I only asked if anyone knew why or when this situation could arise , i find if folk have nothing nice or helpful to type,, then don`t. really do not need the sarky judgemental comments mgdavid , when the laws are different it does matter. bye
    • Marvel1
    • By Marvel1 12th Feb 19, 11:23 PM
    • 3,902 Posts
    • 4,284 Thanks
    Marvel1
    I hope the social worker has been sacked!
    • *max*
    • By *max* 13th Feb 19, 1:00 AM
    • 2,867 Posts
    • 13,509 Thanks
    *max*
    Poor kids.
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