Land Registry questions

Land_Registry · 25 April 2018 at 12:59PM

G_M wrote: »

Thanks. Will do.

Can I suggest you ask the IT guys or whoever to add that contact info to the website somewhere.......?

You can but it's not always an IT issue at our end that is the problem so the team who support that service will often know where the issues lie based on previous feedback/enquiries and sharing of screenshots etc

dunroving · 26 April 2018 at 7:58PM

Land_Registry wrote: »

Option 1 - they would apply to cancel the noted lease. Similar to merger but as the lease is not registered it is a case of appying to cancel the noted lease.

Outcome then depends on what evidence they have to support the application in form CN1. If sufficient then timescales are around 10/15 working days. The apparent advantage here is that the noted lease refers to the original freehold registered owners as the lessees also so making the link/limiting the risk seems doable.

Option 2 - if you buy the freehold title you buy it subject to the noted lease. You don't add the lease to the form TR1 as it is only noted. It simply means you own the freehold subject to the lease and there is a risk that someone may come forward at a later date and claim they own that lease now........

Option 3 - seek to register the lease in it's own right. Why if all you want to do is merge it? If it can be canceleld as a noted lease then it could be merged as a registered lease so little point gewtting it registered and then closing it.

In my experience, and based on the level of detail provided Option 1 seems to be the route to go for the seller to apply to cancel the noted lease
They would submit form CN1 along with documents of title to the determining leasehold interest showing satisfactory evidence of title to the unregistered lease similar to that required if they were looking to register it in it's own right for the first time.
As those details have been lost they would look at the option of providing evidence based on the deeds/lease having been lost

I'm sure your/the seller's conveyancer will be aware of what is required re either Option

The alternative is to buy it subject to the noted lease but I suspect your conveyancer will advise against it or your lender won't lend due to the risk. So Option 1 is probably the only option here but please do rely on your conveyancer as we can't advise you on what to actually do but we can explain what we might expect in each scenario

<<sigh>> So, here is the latest missive from the seller's solicitor (he sent an email to the seller's estate agent, who was enquiring as to progress. The estate agent has passed it onto me, as she, I and the vendor are all getting pretty tired of his juvenile antics.):

"Thank you for your e mail. We are waiting to hear from the buyers solicitors as to whether they wish to cancel the Lease since it may cause more trouble than it solves [we have told then quite clearly, twice, that we want to cancel the lease]. As we pointed out before the conveyance refers to various rights, exceptions and reservations and covenants contained in the Lease and if the Lease is cancelled then the Freehold title and conveyance become meaningless. As we understand it this is the way that the Council have dealt with sales of these properties over the years and we do not wish to end up sabotaging our title to find that the buyers solicitors have changed their minds. [so he seems to effectively be saying here that he will not cancel the lease even if we asked!]"

- this is a person who just wants to get this sale off his desk, and can't be bothered ensuring it is a legally safe/sound purchase for the buyer. I just spoke with my solicitor as this one issue has been dragging on for three weeks and we are entering time-sensitive territory. She (my solicitor) is going to tell the vendor's solicitor "If you don't want to cancel the lease, then register it and sell it to the buyer!"

- my solicitor said she thought that in cases such as this, where time is getting critical, and there is strong evidence that a sale is being held up, Land Registry can expedite the request to register the lease, so that it can be sold with the freehold. To be clear, the vendor's solicitor seems adamant that he will not cancel the lease (eejit).

Is this correct - would LR expedite the registration of the leasehold, and if so, what is the likely timeline? At this rate, the completion date is going to be just as I am due to leave for a three-week business trip overseas, and I'll have to pay for storage of my houseful of furniture, etc.

Justnan · 26 April 2018 at 9:41PM

Hello Land Registry, unfortunately my mum passed away in February. My dad died some 12 years earlier. Mum has left her house to myself and sister. I am going to buy out sister. The house is mortgage free and was owned outright by mum. We have the title deeds. I am not 100% but I believe the property is still registered in both mum and dads name.( mum was great with her paperwork and has absolutely everything. I cannot find any trace that she took dad off the land register docs) Can I just re register the property in my name once probate has been finalised? Thank you

Land_Registry · 27 April 2018 at 7:46AM

dunroving wrote: »

Is this correct - would LR expedite the registration of the leasehold, and if so, what is the likely timeline? At this rate, the completion date is going to be just as I am due to leave for a three-week business trip overseas, and I'll have to pay for storage of my houseful of furniture, etc.

If an application is made and it is expedited then generally speaking the wait time between expedition and consideration is around 10 working days.

The key then of course is that all is in order - if it's not then the timeline becomes the proverbial 'how long is a piece of string'

I hope you are able to resolve this

Land_Registry · 27 April 2018 at 7:49AM

Justnan wrote: »

Hello Land Registry, unfortunately my mum passed away in February. My dad died some 12 years earlier. Mum has left her house to myself and sister. I am going to buy out sister. The house is mortgage free and was owned outright by mum. We have the title deeds. I am not 100% but I believe the property is still registered in both mum and dads name.( mum was great with her paperwork and has absolutely everything. I cannot find any trace that she took dad off the land register docs) Can I just re register the property in my name once probate has been finalised? Thank you

Justnan I'm sorry to read about your loss. If they were joint registered owners then once you have probate registering it in your name should not be an issue.

Have a read of our online shoirt guide which takes you through a series of Qs with the As then steering you to the forms and guidance needed.

And do check and confirm that the property is registered by downloading the register before starting the Qs

dunroving · 27 April 2018 at 8:06AM

Land_Registry wrote: »

If an application is made and it is expedited then generally speaking the wait time between expedition and consideration is around 10 working days.

The key then of course is that all is in order - if it's not then the timeline becomes the proverbial 'how long is a piece of string'

I hope you are able to resolve this

Thank you for the insight.

FYI, all of this is due to the vendor's solicitor, who I realise simply hoped he could get this off his desk without the buyer (me) noticing I was getting screwed. Since then he has been tardy, haughty with everyone concerned, and deliberately obstructive. A perfect example of the type of solicitor who gives solicitors a bad name.

dunroving · 10 May 2018 at 3:21PM

Land_Registry wrote: »

If an application is made and it is expedited then generally speaking the wait time between expedition and consideration is around 10 working days.

The key then of course is that all is in order - if it's not then the timeline becomes the proverbial 'how long is a piece of string'

I hope you are able to resolve this

dunroving wrote: »

Thank you for the insight.

FYI, all of this is due to the vendor's solicitor, who I realise simply hoped he could get this off his desk without the buyer (me) noticing I was getting screwed. Since then he has been tardy, haughty with everyone concerned, and deliberately obstructive. A perfect example of the type of solicitor who gives solicitors a bad name.

According to the seller's solicitor, he submitted a request to merge the leasehold and freehold titles on April 26th. I have asked, via the estate agent, for confirmation that this was submitted as an expedited request, as a sale is pending on the title merger. She (EA) told me today that the solicitor has not confirmed this either to the seller or the estate agent.

Is it possible for me, as buyer (or my solicitor), to find out directly from Land Registry whether an expedited request was submitted? He (seller's solicitor) seems to have an attitude that he doesn't need to respond to communications and I am now looking at quite serious complications if the purchase is delayed much further.

[As a reminder, the Freehold title number is HW183124]

Land_Registry · 10 May 2018 at 3:32PM

dunroving - the application was submitted on the 1st May and completed on the 8th. The noted lease has been removed so the solicitor may now be aware.
I am taking it that it's the same title number involved as you posted previously

dunroving · 10 May 2018 at 3:36PM

Thank you! Query submitted.

dunroving · 10 May 2018 at 3:46PM

Land_Registry wrote: »

dunroving - the application was submitted on the 1st May and completed on the 8th. The noted lease has been removed so the solicitor may now be aware.
I am taking it that it's the same title number involved as you posted previously

You are a star. Thanks for all your help, will get the solicitors moving (hopefully faster than glacial pace).

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