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  • FIRST POST
    • Momofthree
    • By Momofthree 18th Mar 19, 10:17 AM
    • 53Posts
    • 30Thanks
    Momofthree
    Tax credit repayments
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 19, 10:17 AM
    Tax credit repayments 18th Mar 19 at 10:17 AM
    Hi all

    A tax credit overpayment (non fraud) was incuded in both mine & my husband bankruptcies. Im currently still paying £40 a week from current tax credit payments whilst they deal with it (its already been 6 weeks)

    Questions are - how long to deal with this so i get my full payments & secondly, do they need to reimburse payments made since BR date?

    Currently 6 weeks @ £40 a week. They havent even got it on my notes so could continue a while- its a lot of money to me!

    Thanks
    L
Page 2
    • Momofthree
    • By Momofthree 1st Apr 19, 2:54 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Momofthree
    To be included it needs to meet three criteria. Firstly, the overpayment needs to have occurred prior to the date of the order. Secondly, you would have needed to be informed of the overpayment prior to the order date and thirdly, HMRC would need to have sought recovery prior to Mr **** order date for it to be included in his bankruptcy.

    As the overpayment was incurred up to April 2018 it is unlikely that the debt meets the above requirements. However, as you have been notified and have made repayments, the debt will be provable in your bankruptcy.

    As the award is joint, the bankruptcy order simply means that you cannot be pursued for the debt but they will be able to pursue Mr **** for the repayment.

    This is what i have just received. We were repaying before husbands BR. We did know before husbands BR date. It was incurred before husbands BR date.

    Please help, does anyone know how to contact debt doctor directly (sorry im quite new!)

    A very pi**ed off
    L
    • Momofthree
    • By Momofthree 1st Apr 19, 4:06 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Momofthree
    Just to clarify the overpayment is from 2016/7. We have repaid £1700 back already. So there is no question of us not meeting the 3 criteria above. The OR response is that if tax credits rule we need to repay then there is nothing they can or will do further. I have to fight this out with tax credits.. im worried i dont have the knowledge or ability to win, even though i am right.

    Sorry to keep rambing but i am so stressed and nobody in family knows!

    L
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 1st Apr 19, 6:01 PM
    • 4,451 Posts
    • 6,136 Thanks
    debt doctor
    May have spoken to quickly....

    Tax credits have just called me again to say that as of husbands discharge date (18th April 2019) they will be reinstating the overpayment repayments out of our tax credits.

    They said tax credits are not included in the rule of 'writing off' debts after BR and only suspend overpayment recovery during the first 12 months.

    Going to call husbands OR today but im back at square 1. Im gutted to have to do this all over again.

    Im fairly confident i am right but they claim they have got this info from official receivers office. Please can anyone shed any light?

    *just to confirm no overpayment is due to fraudulent claims.

    Thanks
    L
    Originally posted by Momofthree
    How stupid can a Government organisation be? They are beyond embarrassing!

    I think it is perhaps time to involve your MP. They have caseworkers who could take this up on your behalf - Also the OR should be in touch with HMRC too - but doubt that will happen. At least ask the OR for written confirmation that your tax credits are a bankruptcy debt.

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 1st Apr 19, 6:03 PM
    • 4,451 Posts
    • 6,136 Thanks
    debt doctor
    Just read your recent post...... just bear with me.
    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 1st Apr 19, 6:14 PM
    • 4,451 Posts
    • 6,136 Thanks
    debt doctor
    Tax Credits are wrong on the procedure they outline. Whilst the overpayment needs to have occured prior to bankruptcy - the recovery / discovery or decision that an overpayment occured does NOT have to be made prior to bankruptcy.

    Their position would be correct in the case of a DRO.

    See the technical manual here - look at 40.47

    https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/technicalmanual/Ch37-48/chapter40/part2/part_2.htm#40.44

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 1st Apr 19, 6:20 PM
    • 4,451 Posts
    • 6,136 Thanks
    debt doctor
    Great response from the OR by the way - Nothing to do with us!

    I said I wouldn't be surprised.....

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • Momofthree
    • By Momofthree 1st Apr 19, 7:25 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Momofthree
    Thanks DD.

    For anyone who may be following for help, i will update you once i get the answers.

    Thanks
    L
    • Joa1210
    • By Joa1210 2nd Apr 19, 12:36 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Joa1210
    Wow!

    I dont really know how this will go then.
    well done in keeping going though, ill keep my eyes open
    • Clouds88
    • By Clouds88 15th Apr 19, 2:55 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 164 Thanks
    Clouds88
    Mumofthree how you doing with all of this?

    I have sent a complaint to tax credits for all of our hassle. Basically we canít change the name of the creditor from tax credits to ĎDWPí as they want it to (DRO this is) mine has been closed as in insolvent from bankruptcy but DWP are dragging their heels until they get a copy of the DRO from us which we are in the process of sending. I donít know why tax credits canít talk to DWP as they have definitely received it. Itís like they are being as awkward as possible.

    So this month I rang DWP overpayments hotline as they took Ď£124í instead of the £20 we agreed to. Apparently the £20 was only a temporary 6 month thing and they decided due to affordability we could afford the 124 again?!?! Even though we werenít sent a letter to say the payments were going up nor did we get an income or expenditure form to say what are our outgoings. I am pretty sure to a family of four with one salary and tip up benefits deducting £124 when nothing has changed is never going to be affordable??? So after half an hour of the clueless guy on Saturday keeping us on hold he said he will send the refund to his Ďteam leaderí who has 10 working days to approve it then 5 more working days for it to reach us. Iím
    So disgusted with them. I need to pay some bills and feed my children.

    On the plus side my husband has now got a job and depending on when he is getting paid we may never receive another payment again from them and be free of benefits. I donít envy anyone having to rely on these full time we were on tax credits for a few years and then had a break then UC for a year now but hopefully never again they way they treat people. Rant over!

    On another note Iíve received my third (in a six month period) parking fine saying Iíve been parked for longer than 3 hours when I havenít been on any of the occasions. I appealed, again, and sent another letter of complaint to the DVLA 🤣 I feel better now getting all of my complaining out of the way.
    • Momofthree
    • By Momofthree 17th Apr 19, 5:27 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Momofthree
    Hi clouds

    Still an ongoing fight im afraid! Ive been lucky to get with professional, expert help from a very kind CAB employee who has provided letters and advice. HMRC have 1 more week to respond in writing before I escalate to independent adjudicator/MP. Its beyond a nightmare now as husband is now discharged and so if they rule against us i guess thats that

    To me it seems so clear and so I canr understand what they are arguing over!? I have to agree with you that it feels like they're dragging their feet and being awkward to us both. Its pretty clear that we are in dire financial situations!

    Sounds like you could also do with advice from CAB or the fab Debt doctor. Have you tried sending a DM; you will find hime further up the thread.

    Of course ill report back when we get any more info. Good luck with your situatuon
    • Clouds88
    • By Clouds88 17th Apr 19, 9:45 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 164 Thanks
    Clouds88
    Thanks for updating well, I am going to send them the DRO with tax credits listed as a creditor to DWP and see what they say. It’s clear that even though it says tax credits that it is the same debt.

    The only thankful thing is we are now moving from UC to my husband earning so they will have to chase him separately for the debt and I would hope if it ever got to court stage that the judge would tell them they are being ridiculous and of course the debt is written off as part of the DRO. Such a pain.
    • Momofthree
    • By Momofthree 15th May 19, 5:51 AM
    • 53 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Momofthree
    Morning all

    As promised, I am letting you all know the outcome of this now it has been finalised.

    With the significant help of DD, HMRCs decision regarding our repayments of the overpayment is to NOT continue.

    This was not at all straight forward & HMRC got their legal team involved. Nor was it as quick and easy as it should have been. It has taken 12 weeks of continual formal complaints, phone calls & regular advice from DD.

    They have now reimbursed the repayments taken since my BR date and provided some compensation without me even asking for it. I have also recieced verbal and written apologies from HMRC.

    For anyone that finds themself in a similar situation please do not give up. Although agencies such as the HMRC and insolvency service are big & can be a little intimidating they do not always get things right. Ask for help & fight them because you can win (if you are right!!)

    I would like to thank everyone who has provided advice & support on this thread. Particularly DD who has been an absolutle superstar - without his expert knowledge & advice I have no doubt that this would still be happening. Thanks so much DD, I am very grateful for your time & help :-)

    Laura
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 15th May 19, 4:59 PM
    • 4,451 Posts
    • 6,136 Thanks
    debt doctor
    Very glad to have helped. Ultimately HMRC had to back down in the face of clear proof that they were acting unlawfully. Well done to L for the things she had to do with me in the letter drafting / advice role.

    We nearly had to go to the MP, but HMRC finally saw sense. That's £40 pw back in L's pocket - where it should be.

    If you are right, and you can demonstrate it - never give up.

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • Clouds88
    • By Clouds88 15th May 19, 7:54 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 164 Thanks
    Clouds88
    Thatís so good to know Mumofthree

    My husband has had another letter since weíve left UC from tax credits stating the full over payment amount he Ďowesí being the full amount from your joint claim. Luckily Iíve still got the proof of the amount halved that they said he personally owes the year before, and sent that to them plus the copy of his DRO and a letter proving his mental health difficulties and how his stress of their incompetency is affecting him.... yet to hear but but Iím pretty confident if it ever got taken to court we would win 🤷🏼!♀️
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