Electric cars

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  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,685 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Hiya, apologies for the pedantry, but to take up most of a roof is probably more like 4kWp, with current 13% to 18%(ish) efficient panels. In ten years we'll probably have silicon/Perovskite panels in the low 30%, so roof space wise, you'll be able to get twice as much up there.

    Note - in hot sunny conditions that 4kWp array will probably run at about 3kW.

    No worries about pedanty; I'm not familiar with what solar panels can do now. I figured we don't get enough sun in the UK for it to make real sense, but there's parts of the world where we do. Assuming a panel on a car roof can trickle charge enough to do a few miles a day, that might actually cover the usage for a lot of people, or at least take the edge of.
    For instance, park your car at the airport for a 2 week holiday, come back to it fully charged.
    I don't imagine we'll ever hit an efficiency level where it'd be self powered, but getting a couple of miles a day 'free' might not be too bad for a lot of people.
  • David_Aston
    David_Aston Posts: 1,160 Forumite
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    I see that Tesla x100 was parked outside Aldi again. Surely one of you guys is running one of their motors and can give us a heads up?
    On principle, I wouldn't buy a car named "Leaf". Mustang or Corvette, yes!
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,754 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    Indeed. I'll point you back to the post that I was originally responding too. Specifically the part in bold...



    Note the word "companies", not "industries". I used ZF as an example of a company, a manufacturer of traditional gearboxes, that is unlikely to be "toast" because they have embraced the EV revolution and diversified into integrated electric powertrain systems.

    I believe that in the context of that post, 'companies that make gearboxes' (note the plural) = gearbox industry, not each individual company.

    I think your desperation was best highlighted when you ignored coal/tin industry and instead tried to spin into mining industry.

    So, I'll ask again - Do you think the industry producing single ratio fixed reduction gears, will be as large (in monetary terms) as the current gearbox industry producing large, heavy and expensive multi gear variable devices with reverse gears too?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,754 Forumite
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    edited 10 January 2018 at 8:31PM
    Herzlos wrote: »
    No worries about pedanty; I'm not familiar with what solar panels can do now. I figured we don't get enough sun in the UK for it to make real sense, but there's parts of the world where we do. Assuming a panel on a car roof can trickle charge enough to do a few miles a day, that might actually cover the usage for a lot of people, or at least take the edge of.
    For instance, park your car at the airport for a 2 week holiday, come back to it fully charged.
    I don't imagine we'll ever hit an efficiency level where it'd be self powered, but getting a couple of miles a day 'free' might not be too bad for a lot of people.

    It's pedantry, not pedanty ....... boy oh boy ..... ;)

    Joking aside, no probs, PV and EV's are an interesting combination. Though of course there's the issue of whether the car is home whilst it's sunny.

    I came to an interesting conclusion recently that we could drive 'for free'* for approx 6 months of the year if we had a battery with around 15kWh of storage, such as the Tesla Powerwall (13.5kWh).

    On average we generate 20kWh per day in the summer (typically 10-30kWh), consume approx 5kWh and export 15kWh. We buy approx 2.5kWh per day, so allowing for some leeway, we'd still have 10kWh of the 13.5kWh battery left for the EV.

    At 30-40 miles per 10kWh, that's actually more than our average mileage which is about 22miles per day (8k pa). So perhaps 7kWh per day needed, which widens our ability to meet EV needs to all of the better 6 months. Not bad.

    The other 6 months, no spare for the EV, either too little gen or any spare would go on ASHP use, but I suppose it's then that I'd get E7 for car charging, and battery charging (to avoid higher priced leccy during the day).

    *Free after spending many thousands of pounds on PV and batts!

    [Edit - I've just realised that you were referring to the car roof, I was thinking house roof. Doh! But, yes, every little bit would count so long as the PV car roof option isn't ridiculously priced. M.]
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,754 Forumite
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    Regarding the impact of EV's on the grid, this report from BMW, following an 18 month trial might be of interest. It used 100 volunteer I3 owners whose cars charged when best for the grid and provided grid support. It's a little old, but I only found it yesterday.

    It shows that EV's can reduce the peak load more and more as their numbers increase, see Figs 21 & 22.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,754 Forumite
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    Big news on Workhorse's pick up truck, they are now going to sell to the public.

    It's a range extender vehicle using the same tiny engine as the UPS style truck they also sell.

    It'll do 80 miles on leccy only, is all wheel drive, and something of interest to utility buyers is also an on-site generator for leccy.

    Workhorse W-15 Orders Now Open To The Public
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Big news on Workhorse's pick up truck, they are now going to sell to the public.

    It's a range extender vehicle using the same tiny engine as the UPS style truck they also sell.

    It'll do 80 miles on leccy only, is all wheel drive, and something of interest to utility buyers is also an on-site generator for leccy.

    Workhorse W-15 Orders Now Open To The Public

    A hybrid, albeit an extended-range one. $52k, or $45k after government subsidy.

    To put that into perspective, a Ford F150 (continually the best-selling vehicle of any kind - not just pickup - in the US) starts at $27k, or $32k with 4wd.

    Orders "for delivery in 2019". Ford announced a year ago that there'll be a hybrid F150 "by 2020", with on-site electricity supply.
    https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/3/14153852/ford-hybrid-f150-mustang-electric-car-2020
    More of a surprise is probably why Toyota are only recently "seriously considering" the concept.
    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2017/10/toyota-isn-t-ruling-out-the-idea-of-a-hybrid-pickup-truck.html

    Ford are already doing fleet trials of a PHEV Transit Custom in the UK.
    https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/specialist-sales/fleet/phev
    ...and while they don't sell the Transit Custom in the states, they do sell the smaller Transit Connect and larger Transit there.

    Workforce are going to have a very hard sell, novelty value apart.

    From the end of that CleanTechnica.com article...
    Full disclosure: The author owns shares in Workhorse.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,754 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    A hybrid, albeit an extended-range one. $52k, or $45k after government subsidy.

    It's nice to see that Workhorse where able to squeeze in that range extender - when you said it would weigh over a ton and be 2.4 cubic metres in size!
    AdrianC wrote: »

    So you're looking at a trailer that can recharge, say, 200 mile range (call it 60kWh) in three hours (200 miles), plus another 60kWh for actually driving the car that distance. 120kWh in three hours, 40kW.

    This is what a 40kW diesel generator looks like.
    https://www.generac.com/industrial/products/diesel-generators/configured/40kw-diesel-generator
    Generac-Industrial-Power-Diesel-Genset-40kW_main-04.jpg

    With no fuel tank, it's 2m long, 1m wide, 1.2m high, and weighs just under a ton. Add another half ton for the trailer hardware. For that 700 mile range, you'd be looking at (say) 12hrs at 13 litres per hour full-load use. And, really, you'd want to go up a step - because running it flat out is not going to be at all good for life expectancy.

    'course, we'll ignore the minor detail that that's far more fuel than - say - a diesel Golf would use for the same journey...

    Do you perhaps think it's about time to end your constant negative postings?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    If you re-read all that, you might spot the rather glaring difference between what I actually said and what you're claiming I said.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    If you re-read all that, you might spot the rather glaring difference between what I actually said and what you're claiming I said.

    I’m glad it’s not just me!
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