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    • lea_lea
    • By lea_lea 5th Jun 17, 5:16 PM
    • 8Posts
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    lea_lea
    Transfering from no end date DLA to PIP?
    • #1
    • 5th Jun 17, 5:16 PM
    Transfering from no end date DLA to PIP? 5th Jun 17 at 5:16 PM
    Hi all,


    The person I care for just got a dreaded letter to say they need to transfer from DLA to PIP. The letter nicely warns that just because they're getting DLA now doesn't mean they're going to get PIP and I've seen plenty in the press to cause serious concern.


    The person I care for has MS and has had it for thirty years, been on DLA higher rate all that time. Their health as seriously deteriorated over recent years and I believe they now are classed as having secondary progressive, and there's no way they'd be able to return to work or survive on the lower rate PIP, so I'm really concerned for them.


    I've heard horror stories about Atos and what not, but it all tends to be connected to new applications or people who were perhaps not classed as "no end date/infinite" with their DLA.


    Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Does the "no end date" not matter when counting towards PIP? Are you just treated the same as everyone else when applying or do they go a little easier on people who have been on DLA in such a way for so long with degenerative diseases?

    I've heard a lot of talk about providing "evidence" with letters from healthcare professionals and such, but the info in the pack just says to include addresses for them to contact. Should I be chasing down doctors and what not for letters? And if so, what do the letters need to say?

    Any help/advice would be a big help.
    Thanks all.
Page 1
    • Prinzessilein
    • By Prinzessilein 5th Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    • 2,596 Posts
    • 12,178 Thanks
    Prinzessilein
    • #2
    • 5th Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    I am just waiting for the results of my PiP interview.

    I included a copy of the report from my consultant - confirming a couple of diagnoses and explaining how they affect me.

    For my GP and other specialists I see, I simply included their names and addresses.

    If you already have a report or letter, and it includes RELEVANT support for your claim then I would send a copy (never the original...just in case it gets lost!)....you are limited for time with the application, so I would probably not start asking for letters et.c unless they will contain compelling evidentiary support.

    I may be wrong, but my understanding is that having had an indefinite award for DLA is unlikely to have any particular relevance for a PiPs application.

    It might be worth bearing in mind that your friend can ask for a home visit if a face-to-face is deemed necessary. You may need to phone to request this...and you may need to be firm in stating the necessity - but they DO offer this.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 5th Jun 17, 6:20 PM
    • 2,723 Posts
    • 3,174 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #3
    • 5th Jun 17, 6:20 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Jun 17, 6:20 PM
    The MS society has some useful information on completing a PIP form.

    I would suggest seeing if your friend can get help with the form from their local CAB / agency.

    Other sources of info include:
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-pip-claim/fill-in-form/
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-claims
    https://www.mssociety.org.uk/ms-support/disability-benefits/PIP
    https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/personal-independence-payment-pip

    It is always a good idea to enclose relevant medical evidence, as unlike with DLA the DWP are unlikely to contact her GP / medical referees as part of the PIP process.

    It is helpful if the medical evidence links to the PIP descriptors.
    This guide (although about PIP appeals) is useful on getting evidence:
    http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 05-06-2017 at 6:25 PM.
    • easy
    • By easy 5th Jun 17, 6:31 PM
    • 2,325 Posts
    • 2,736 Thanks
    easy
    • #4
    • 5th Jun 17, 6:31 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Jun 17, 6:31 PM
    lea_lea,
    the first thing I want to say is try not to take too much notice of the things you have seen in the press. It is my understanding that most applicants with genuine need are successfully assessed and get the appropriate level of award. The press is bound to only report on those cases where problems have arisen, giving us all a wrong impression.
    So, don't panic or waste energy on worrying.

    The best thing to do is prepare the paperwork for the person you care for with as much care as possible.

    Take a look at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-pip-claim/fill-in-form/ which seems to be a good guide to filling in the paperwork.
    I would suggest getting as much evidence as possible to send with the application form, rather than just sending contact details for the medical professionals. From what I can gather reading the threads on here, the assessors don't bother contacting them anyway. If you have sent evidence/reports/letters from the GP/specialist/occupational therapist or anyone else who has dealt with the patient, then they can't ignore it. I know that will take time and effort, but if it saves the need to ask for a review or make an appeal for a wrong decision, it has to be worth it, surely?

    It seems that the indefinite award status of DLA has no bearing on the PIP application at all. The whole point of introducing PIP was to wipe the slate clean, and try to ensure that all claimants were genuine claimants, as DLA had started to get a reputation for payment to malingerers and fraudsters. Hence, the PIP assessment uses different criteria for deciding the award, and begins from scratch with each claimant.
    I really do believe that if you read and follow the guidance, fill in the paperwork correctly and with as much detail as you can, provide as much documentary evidence with the forms as you can possibly gather, then the person you care for will get the award they deserve.
    They might not get asked for a face-to-face interview, but if they do, don't panic about that. They simply need to re-iterate what was written on the forms in answer to the questions the assessor asks. Remember to keep a copy of the paperwork sent in the application so you/your caree can read through it again before the assessment interview (if that happens).

    I hope that helps.
    Good luck
    I try not to get too stressed out on the forum. I won't argue, i'll just leave a thread if you don't like what I say.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 5th Jun 17, 7:43 PM
    • 6,753 Posts
    • 12,227 Thanks
    GlasweJen
    • #5
    • 5th Jun 17, 7:43 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jun 17, 7:43 PM
    Definitely send your own evidence if you can. They didn't contact any of my specialists and they awarded me no PIP based on their assessment with a nurse, even though the nurse blatantly lied saying I walked up stairs and completed lower limb tests with normal results (I'm a paraplegic).

    Had to go all the way to tribunal. My indefinite DLA meant absolutely nothing to them.
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    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 5th Jun 17, 8:11 PM
    • 4,211 Posts
    • 4,020 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #6
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:11 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:11 PM
    It is my understanding that most applicants with genuine need are successfully assessed and get the appropriate level of award.
    Originally posted by easy
    I would disagree with you there. So many people that were on DLA before whether it was indefinite or not and even those who weren't on it have been refused PIP. Being geniune doesn't mean you'll be awarded anything. There's a lot of geniune people out there who have lost everything, mobility cars included.
    • w06
    • By w06 6th Jun 17, 12:27 AM
    • 770 Posts
    • 1,115 Thanks
    w06
    • #7
    • 6th Jun 17, 12:27 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Jun 17, 12:27 AM
    I think part of the driving force for change to pip was hte indefinite DLA awards, and so they don't attract any different assessment.

    Just to balance to bad experience stories, I had an indefinite DLA award, high mobility, middle care. Was moved to PIP this time last year, had been dreading the process since PIP was announced, but in truth the only bad bit was the wait (8 weeks from assessment to letter). I ended up with ongoing award enhanced for both parts, which having since looked at the descriptors is right, but is more than I'd anticipated. I didn't submit any evidence with my application, but did give permission for my DLA file to be used - it was at least a decade old though so doubt they did.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 6th Jun 17, 10:19 AM
    • 8,895 Posts
    • 2,168 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    • #8
    • 6th Jun 17, 10:19 AM
    • #8
    • 6th Jun 17, 10:19 AM
    I too have an indefinate end date for my award of DLA (mid care) from 12 years ago - I am dreading the arrival of a brown envelope from DWP !!
    You are not alone in being concerned ..
    Considering the joke process that I was forced to go through with my DLA (offered max care and mobility - reduced to nil both after less than 2 months - resolved by MP letter - accepted mid care) - I am not looking forwards to the transfer - despite my condition getting considerably worse in the intervening years !
    • cantcope
    • By cantcope 7th Jun 17, 1:57 PM
    • 1,751 Posts
    • 1,303 Thanks
    cantcope
    • #9
    • 7th Jun 17, 1:57 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jun 17, 1:57 PM
    I've just transferred from DLA to PIP.
    I have Relpasing Remitting MS and am a lot worse than i was when awarded DLA. I was on middle rate care and high mobility indefinitely.

    However, PIP is different and assesses different things to what DLA did. I have been awarded Standard rate care and Standard rate mobility for 6 years so have to hand my car back at the beginning of August.

    I have sent off for a mandatory reconsideration as some of the statements on the decision report are simply untrue and i feel i deserve enhanced for both. I am not hopeful anything will change for the better and am worried they may even take away what they awarded. They gave me the minimum points needed for each.
    my eyes are like mirrors. They reflect whats going on around me rather than whats inside
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    • sleepy14
    • By sleepy14 7th Jun 17, 3:33 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    sleepy14
    2nd progressive MS
    I have secondary progressive MS and am now parallelized from the waist down I am dreading receiving the transfer forms, but I have a good consultant who is, if available happy to write letters for me.

    I am under no illusions when transferring from high rate, both parts DLA, indefinate. But I always enter these things knowing that planning is everything and getting as much advice as possible before hand should, hopefully bear the hoped for fruit.
    • Sillym00
    • By Sillym00 7th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Sillym00
    I don't have experience of moving from DLA to PIP but I successfully claimed PIP recently and, despite the horror stories I've read, the whole experience was pretty relaxed. A number of times during my assessment I was encouraged not to do myself out of points by being too positive and ambitious about what I could manage - the complete opposite to what I'd believed so please don't worry unnecessarily. If something awful happens then it can be dealt with but worrying about it before it happens won't change it!

    Read through each descriptor and answer as thoroughly as possible how each activity affects the person you care for. These are the answers they are 'testing' your claim on rather than a diagnosis. Medical evidence is helpful but if it's only a diagnosis it may not be detailed enough to determine how the person you care for is challenged in each area e.g. one person with MS may still walk fairly well while others with MS will require a full time wheelchair. So if you have medical evidence that outlines limitations it gives more 'proof' to what is claimed.

    Having said that, I was new to claiming anything and completely unprepared so I didn't answer the questions on the form very well and provided no evidence other than names and addresses of consultants etc. and it wasn't until I was at the assessment I found out that they'd received no reply to request for info from my doctors at all! In the end the assessment formed the whole basis of my claim along with a very kind and understanding assessor who helped a great deal. Maybe I was just one of the lucky ones...

    Good luck!
    • dekaspace
    • By dekaspace 20th Jun 17, 2:50 AM
    • 4,748 Posts
    • 4,436 Thanks
    dekaspace
    I would disagree with you there. So many people that were on DLA before whether it was indefinite or not and even those who weren't on it have been refused PIP. Being geniune doesn't mean you'll be awarded anything. There's a lot of geniune people out there who have lost everything, mobility cars included.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    I agree, for ESA as well. my own father was sent home as the assessments were over 2 hours behind schedule and he was an afternoon appointment, imagine his shock when a few days later he got a letter saying his benefit was stopped as he failed his assessment (not missed, actually failed) they made up a entire assessment, luckily they didn't realise my dad has 2 degrees and was a former part time university lecturer so he caught them out at tribunal.

    I myself was awarded zero points at assessment for ESA and DLA, both times had to go to tribunal and even then only won as had welfare rights and a good social worker on my side.

    Friend who was sectioned was turned down for ESA/PIP and documents lost by DWP that supported his claim.

    Then theres other people I know.

    I could post a full page here on just my bad experiences with DWP over the years and another with relatives issues and another with friends and their relatives issues.

    So whilst there is success stories there is a lot of negative ones too.
    • lynstar46
    • By lynstar46 12th Jan 19, 7:00 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lynstar46
    My friend has been migrated from DLA to PIP. He was High Care, High Mobility under DLA indefinite. With PIP he was scored High Care, Standard Mobility. He has just lost his tribunal case and as he lives in a rural town and travels a way to work he has had to give back the mobility vehicle and give up his job the very next day. He suffers from cerebral palsy.
    The PIP form works like a straitjacket for anyone trying to show some leeway on the points. The judge said that under the DLA rules he would have qualified for the Enhanced Mobility payment no doubt about it.
    Now the job centre says if he can get the company to keep his job open for a few weeks they may be able to arrange for a taxi to take him to and from work. He needed 2 points for him to get the extra £36 per week to keep the car, taxis even at 50% discount would cost £360 per week!!! Who is mad??
    Last edited by lynstar46; 12-01-2019 at 7:05 PM. Reason: left out some detail about the condition suffered
    • White_musk
    • By White_musk 12th Jan 19, 8:47 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 928 Thanks
    White_musk
    I also disagree. I was on high rate care and mobility for life with DLA. When I transferred I was awarded zero. I did a MR, still nothing. I went to the tribunal and was awarded enhanced care and mobility. I have a thread up here somewhere detailing my experience. It was horrible. Thankfully, the tribunal was very straight forward if mentally exhausting. It's not easy to get what you're entitled to but I do think in the majority of cases it does turn our right in the end. It's sad it takes the stress of a tribunal to make it so, though.

    Edit to add: My post referenced above. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5697326
    Last edited by White_musk; 12-01-2019 at 8:52 PM.
    God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, wisdom to know the difference.
    • Nannytone
    • By Nannytone 13th Jan 19, 3:27 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 239 Thanks
    Nannytone
    Over 70 pound a day in taxi fares. How far from his workplace does he live .
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 13th Jan 19, 11:37 PM
    • 4,211 Posts
    • 4,020 Thanks
    poppy12345
    My friend has been migrated from DLA to PIP. He was High Care, High Mobility under DLA indefinite. With PIP he was scored High Care, Standard Mobility. He has just lost his tribunal case and as he lives in a rural town and travels a way to work he has had to give back the mobility vehicle and give up his job the very next day. He suffers from cerebral palsy.
    The PIP form works like a straitjacket for anyone trying to show some leeway on the points. The judge said that under the DLA rules he would have qualified for the Enhanced Mobility payment no doubt about it.
    Now the job centre says if he can get the company to keep his job open for a few weeks they may be able to arrange for a taxi to take him to and from work. He needed 2 points for him to get the extra £36 per week to keep the car, taxis even at 50% discount would cost £360 per week!!! Who is mad??
    Originally posted by lynstar46
    Unfortunately, needing a car to be able to get to work is not a reason to be awarded Enhanced mobility. With the criteria for High mobility DLA and enhanced mobility PIP being different then there's a lot of people that won't qualify for Enhanced mobility PIP when transferring across.



    £720 per week for a taxi to work? really?
    • CHRISSYG
    • By CHRISSYG 14th Jan 19, 5:23 PM
    • 5,797 Posts
    • 16,747 Thanks
    CHRISSYG
    The transfer for my daughter turned out ok , she was on mrc/lrm on DLA but she was awarded enhanced on both with PIP .
    Be careful who you entrust with the care of you vulnerable loved ones there’s a lot of bottom feeding scum posing as normal human beings !
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