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  • FIRST POST
    • atlantis187
    • By atlantis187 8th Dec 18, 10:05 PM
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    atlantis187
    PIP Assesement - Complete lies
    • #1
    • 8th Dec 18, 10:05 PM
    PIP Assesement - Complete lies 8th Dec 18 at 10:05 PM
    My wife has the following conditions for the past several years:

    Ulcerative Colitis
    Arthirits (secondary to the above)
    Mental health issues
    Aczema

    We completed the form and sent all medical evidence to DWP.

    I know PIP is not awarded on diagnosis but on care needs, which my wife needs a lot of.

    so basically I went with her to the pip assessment 2 weeks ago and explained everything in complete details everything my wife can and can't do.
    The stuck up !!!! faced so called pip assessor has completed written a different version of events. Even though we have not received the final decision we have received a copy of the report from the dwp and on there she states there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with my wife and can do everything it asks on the descriptors and basically should be awarded 0 points for all of the descriptors.


    God I am sooooo mad how can these people get away with this type of thing blatant lying. its a type of fraud denying her what she is rightly entitled to claim for.
    It just felt like we were just a another number for her to decline so her organisation gets another fat bonus from the DWP.

    We will definitely be asking for a MR and appealing but we feel extremely saddened by the blatant lies this pathetic woman has made up.
Page 1
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 8th Dec 18, 11:16 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #2
    • 8th Dec 18, 11:16 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Dec 18, 11:16 PM
    PIP isn't awarded based on care needs or a diagnosis. A person can claim PIP even if they receive no care at all. It's purely how those conditions affect your ability to carry activity based on the PIP descriptors.



    When requesting the MR you should avoid mentioning the lies in the report because they won't be interested in any of those. What you should do is have a copy of the PIP descriptors and point out where you think she should have scored those points and your reasons why. Giving a couple of examples of what happened the last time she did that activity.


    The evidence you send should state how her conditions affect her. Sending letters of a diagnosis, isn't going to help her claim. A letter from a GP also isn't the best evidence to send because a GP will not know how her conditions affect her, they will only be able to tell them about medication and a diagnosis, with very little information about anything else.


    Having some understanding of what the descriptors mean will also help. It's very very easy to misunderstand what they mean and think you should score a certain amount of points for a descriptors, when realistically that just isn't possible.


    This link will help you have some understanding of all the descriptors.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria
    • atlantis187
    • By atlantis187 8th Dec 18, 11:37 PM
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    atlantis187
    • #3
    • 8th Dec 18, 11:37 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Dec 18, 11:37 PM
    [QUOTE=poppy12345;75158023

    The evidence you send should state how her conditions affect her. Sending letters of a diagnosis, isn't going to help her claim. A letter from a GP also isn't the best evidence to send because a GP will not know how her conditions affect her, they will only be able to tell them about medication and a diagnosis, with very little information about anything else.


    [/QUOTE

    Thanks for the link. Where are we supposed to get evidence how her condition affects here if not from a health professional?
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 9th Dec 18, 6:52 AM
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    poppy12345
    • #4
    • 9th Dec 18, 6:52 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Dec 18, 6:52 AM
    She can write a diary. You can write a letter telling them how her conditions affect her against the PIP descriptors. Write as much detail as possible and use the PIP descriptors to write the letter.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 9th Dec 18, 5:55 PM
    • 2,887 Posts
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    Alice Holt
    • #5
    • 9th Dec 18, 5:55 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Dec 18, 5:55 PM
    OP,

    I completely agree with poppy, you have to base your appeal on you the PIP activities / descriptors. This is how a tribunal panel will arrive at a decision. (Don't expect the DWP to overturn their decision at MR stage).
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

    The link poppy has supplied to the assessors guide will be very helpful. Look carefully at the reliability section.

    This is a good guide to the appeal process:
    https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
    If you follow this guide, and keep in mind timescales, it should help you through the process.

    At the hearing, your wife's verbal evidence will be very important.
    I would echo poppy's remarks about not being too angry about the report. Point out any internal contradictions in it, but in your written statement explain how and why the descriptors apply. Your wife can explain further at the hearing, and give examples / illustrations of these activities to the panel from a typical week / month.

    If you can get help from your local advice agency / CAB, then I would suggest you do so.
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

    Was this a renewal? Was your wife previously in receipt of PIP?
    If so, then there is some case law around the DWP having to give very precise reasons for ending a claim on reassessment (particular for chronic, degenerative, and continuing conditions).
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • atlantis187
    • By atlantis187 10th Dec 18, 12:09 AM
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    atlantis187
    • #6
    • 10th Dec 18, 12:09 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Dec 18, 12:09 AM
    Thanks alice and poppy

    This was a brand new claim she has not been claiming dla or pip before.

    We did actually include a diary of a typical day in her life on the pip form at the end where it asks for 'any extra info' but it seems like this has been totally disregarded and probably not even been read by that stuck up idiotic assessor.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Dec 18, 7:15 AM
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    poppy12345
    • #7
    • 10th Dec 18, 7:15 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Dec 18, 7:15 AM
    Thanks alice and poppy

    This was a brand new claim she has not been claiming dla or pip before.

    We did actually include a diary of a typical day in her life on the pip form at the end where it asks for 'any extra info' but it seems like this has been totally disregarded and probably not even been read by that stuck up idiotic assessor.
    Originally posted by atlantis187
    I realise you're angry but when writing the MR request letter you really do have to try to control that anger. Lots of people claim PIP successfully first time without any problems at all.



    Before writing the MR make sure you have a read of all of the links above, especially the link in my post.
    • Lanzarote1938
    • By Lanzarote1938 10th Dec 18, 9:10 AM
    • 507 Posts
    • 1,309 Thanks
    Lanzarote1938
    • #8
    • 10th Dec 18, 9:10 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Dec 18, 9:10 AM
    I agree that diagnoses don't necessarily mean much on their own.


    I know someone who has lymphoma, just started his 5th line of chemotherapy. He has insulin dependent diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis. His specialist haematology nurse has given him the fast track end of life form to claim AA but he actually needs no care on a day to day basis. However looking at his list of illnesses you would think he would.
    • Scaredforthefuture
    • By Scaredforthefuture 11th Dec 18, 9:02 AM
    • 183 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    Scaredforthefuture
    • #9
    • 11th Dec 18, 9:02 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Dec 18, 9:02 AM
    I started a diary after seeing a simple one in the NRAS hand book - the same example is available on line but I've forgotten how to post links .

    The first few days I thought it was a complete waste of time but soon the little excerpts I dictated added up to quite a saga! It's wealth of evidence!

    I don't think that the assessors tell outright lies, I just think it's really hard to get convey our evidence.

    Good luck!
    If tha' brexit, tha' pays for it.
    • atlantis187
    • By atlantis187 17th Dec 18, 12:00 AM
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    • 388 Thanks
    atlantis187
    Hi Poppy and Alice,

    We finally received the dreded brown envelope on Friday and as we thought she has been turned down and awarded 0 points for everything.


    The decision maker waffles on a little in trying to explain the decision same as the Assessor does in her report and constantly repeating herself even where its not relevant (looks like a copy/paste job to me).

    Anyhow we about to the spent the next week to draft a MR letter to challenge this how are we best to tackle this?
    should we go through what she has wrote in her decisions and breaks this down into small chunks and write how we disagree with each point?

    Or should we just go back to each of the descriptors on the pip and write an explanation why she should have been awarded points for these?


    Thanks
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 17th Dec 18, 7:24 AM
    • 4,732 Posts
    • 4,428 Thanks
    poppy12345
    PIP isn't awarded based on care needs or a diagnosis. A person can claim PIP even if they receive no care at all. It's purely how those conditions affect your ability to carry activity based on the PIP descriptors.



    When requesting the MR you should avoid mentioning the lies in the report because they won't be interested in any of those. What you should do is have a copy of the PIP descriptors and point out where you think she should have scored those points and your reasons why. Giving a couple of examples of what happened the last time she did that activity.


    The evidence you send should state how her conditions affect her. Sending letters of a diagnosis, isn't going to help her claim. A letter from a GP also isn't the best evidence to send because a GP will not know how her conditions affect her, they will only be able to tell them about medication and a diagnosis, with very little information about anything else.


    Having some understanding of what the descriptors mean will also help. It's very very easy to misunderstand what they mean and think you should score a certain amount of points for a descriptors, when realistically that just isn't possible.


    This link will help you have some understanding of all the descriptors.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    This advice above in my other post explains what you need to do for the MR request.
    • budgie mcinally
    • By budgie mcinally 27th Dec 18, 6:35 PM
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    budgie mcinally
    RE complete lies.
    I started my pip claim in January 2018. I only just won it This month. My advice if you can get someone who knows about the legal system to go with you. You will more than likely have to put in for a mandatory reconsideration notice, Then go on to appeals. Do not mention anything new to Dwp as they will twist it and lie. always put things in writing asking for a written report so you can ask questions at a tribunal. The one Word that they never ever mention when it comes to tribunal tell them you have never been asked if you can do these so called tasks Now this is important SAFELY that word they always and will always miss out.
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 29th Dec 18, 2:00 AM
    • 16,627 Posts
    • 23,553 Thanks
    antrobus
    I started my pip claim in January 2018. I only just won it This month. My advice if you can get someone who knows about the legal system to go with you. You will more than likely have to put in for a mandatory reconsideration notice, Then go on to appeals. Do not mention anything new to Dwp as they will twist it and lie. always put things in writing asking for a written report so you can ask questions at a tribunal. The one Word that they never ever mention when it comes to tribunal tell them you have never been asked if you can do these so called tasks Now this is important SAFELY that word they always and will always miss out.
    Originally posted by budgie mcinally
    It's not missed out. It's in the PIP2 instructions.

    How to complete the form

    In each section, please tick one of the boxes marked Yes, No or Sometimes for each question asked. Then provide more detail in the Extra Information box about how your health conditions or disabilities affect your ability to do the activities, the difficulties you face and help you need. In particular:
    If you can do them safely, to an acceptable standard, as often as you need to and in a reasonable time.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584201/pip2-information-booklet.pdf
    • atlantis187
    • By atlantis187 5th Feb 19, 10:40 PM
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    • 388 Thanks
    atlantis187
    So my wife had a MR letter back today even though we sent a very strong letter back to argue our case why the decision should be changed (thanks to Alice holt) along with extra evidence the new decisions maker has just done a copy & paste job from the original decision and has gave 0 points like before and it looks like our letter was not even read and totally disregarded.

    What is the next step now what can we do?
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 5th Feb 19, 10:54 PM
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    poppy12345
    So my wife had a MR letter back today even though we sent a very strong letter back to argue our case why the decision should be changed (thanks to Alice holt) along with extra evidence the new decisions maker has just done a copy & paste job from the original decision and has gave 0 points like before and it looks like our letter was not even read and totally disregarded.

    What is the next step now what can we do?
    Originally posted by atlantis187
    This is not unusual as most MR decisions remain the same and are mostly copy and paste decisions. Only 18% of them are successful.


    Your next step is to request the Tribunal and you have 1 month from the date of the MR decision to request this.


    You need to fill out the SSCS1 form and send the MR decision letter with the form. If you don't send MR decision letter with it then the Tribunal won't accept the request.


    Information in the link how to do this.
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/appeal-a-social-security-benefits-decision-form-sscs1
    • atlantis187
    • By atlantis187 7th Feb 19, 11:03 PM
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    atlantis187
    do we need to send a letter explain why we are appealing this decision like we did for the MR or is this not necessary and if we do can we just send the same letter we sent for the MR
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 7th Feb 19, 11:49 PM
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    NeilCr
    As Poppy says you need to fill in an SSC1 form

    More information here - plus how to complete and what to say


    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/
    • atlantis187
    • By atlantis187 26th Feb 19, 11:33 PM
    • 1,077 Posts
    • 388 Thanks
    atlantis187
    When applying for a pip appeal using the online service do u still need to send the MR letter from the DWP in post aswell
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