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    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 1st Jul 12, 5:42 PM
    • 6,582 Posts
    • 3,030 Thanks
    LeeUK
    I'm on this road all the time and it is a bit dangerous at that slip road. Been lots of accidents around that area.
    • Paradigm
    • By Paradigm 1st Jul 12, 6:37 PM
    • 3,448 Posts
    • 4,348 Thanks
    Paradigm
    well what are they going to refresh on this course?
    what are they going to teach?
    a basic proficiency 'test'?
    Is that really a way to 'teach' people what to do in real life?
    Originally posted by custardy
    My thoughts were that regular updates/refreshers/training for all road users was a good idea, obviously you don't think so.

    Maybe cyclists never develop bad habits despite years of experience.... who knows?

    Have fun
    Always try to be at least half the person your dog thinks you are!
    • custardy
    • By custardy 1st Jul 12, 6:41 PM
    • 35,249 Posts
    • 29,935 Thanks
    custardy
    My thoughts were that regular for all road users was a good idea, obviously you don't think so.

    Maybe cyclists never develop bad habits despite years of experience.... who knows?

    Have fun
    Originally posted by Paradigm
    so how would it work?
    what would it cover?
    you have flounced around a fluffy idea.
    what is it "updates/refreshers/training" in?
    how would you enforce/regualte it?
    • Paradigm
    • By Paradigm 1st Jul 12, 7:07 PM
    • 3,448 Posts
    • 4,348 Thanks
    Paradigm
    so how would it work?
    what would it cover?
    you have flounced around a fluffy idea.
    what is it "updates/refreshers/training" in?
    how would you enforce/regualte it?
    Originally posted by custardy
    God help me. It was an idea, a thought that's all.

    Why have one section of road users subjected to mandatary re-training but not others? Doesn't seem right that that some road users can demand action/retests for others but have none, at all, themselves.

    I don't know how it would be policed/enforced/regulated... it was a thought based on the fact that some sections of the road using community are far more vulnerable than others so some form of training might be a good idea!

    I spend my working day avidly watching for cyclists, it's a pity that some don't spend the same amount of time protecting themselves.
    Always try to be at least half the person your dog thinks you are!
    • custardy
    • By custardy 1st Jul 12, 8:13 PM
    • 35,249 Posts
    • 29,935 Thanks
    custardy
    God help me. It was an idea, a thought that's all.

    Why have one section of road users subjected to mandatary re-training but not others? Doesn't seem right that that some road users can demand action/retests for others but have none, at all, themselves.

    I don't know how it would be policed/enforced/regulated... it was a thought based on the fact that some sections of the road using community are far more vulnerable than others so some form of training might be a good idea!

    I spend my working day avidly watching for cyclists, it's a pity that some don't spend the same amount of time protecting themselves.
    Originally posted by Paradigm
    *well why have a driving test then?
    if its all down to whats fair.

    * yeah its all their own fault.
    • Paradigm
    • By Paradigm 1st Jul 12, 8:55 PM
    • 3,448 Posts
    • 4,348 Thanks
    Paradigm
    *well why have a driving test then?
    if its all down to whats fair.

    * yeah its all their own fault.
    Originally posted by custardy
    Sometimes I wonder why some parts of society get a bad rap! When it comes to cyclists you do a pretty good job of explaining it.

    If you want to be stupid let's try this....

    All road users should be registered, insured & taxed. This includes cycles.

    Thats what you wanted isn't it?
    Always try to be at least half the person your dog thinks you are!
    • custardy
    • By custardy 1st Jul 12, 8:57 PM
    • 35,249 Posts
    • 29,935 Thanks
    custardy
    Sometimes I wonder why some parts of society get a bad rap! When it comes to cyclists you do a pretty good job of explaining it.

    If you want to be stupid let's try this....

    All road users should be registered, insured & taxed. This includes cycles.

    Thats what you wanted isn't it?
    Originally posted by Paradigm
    how would you create that?
    would that reduce deaths?
    • Mrs Imp
    • By Mrs Imp 1st Jul 12, 9:08 PM
    • 976 Posts
    • 1,588 Thanks
    Mrs Imp
    Sometimes I wonder why some parts of society get a bad rap! When it comes to cyclists you do a pretty good job of explaining it.

    If you want to be stupid let's try this....

    All road users should be registered, insured & taxed. This includes cycles.

    Thats what you wanted isn't it?
    Originally posted by Paradigm
    I'm afraid you need to understand that Custardy is never wrong, and does quite like an argument.

    The reality is that some drivers are rubbish and need a refresher course, and some cyclists are rubbish and need to be taught how to obey the highway code - like the cyclist who shouted at me because I was in his way, as I crossed the road on a green man. And the two who failed to stop for me at a zebra crossing, they were closely followed by idiot car drivers who were so keen to get passed the cyclists that they ignored me too.

    There are idiots in all sections of road users, and the sooner that people realise this and take it in to account when they are on the roads, the better. Cyclists are not 'saintly environmentally friendly people' and car drivers do not 'own the road'
    • Paradigm
    • By Paradigm 1st Jul 12, 9:25 PM
    • 3,448 Posts
    • 4,348 Thanks
    Paradigm
    I'm afraid you need to understand that Custardy is never wrong, and does quite like an argument.
    Originally posted by Mrs Imp
    Yep, I'm getting that...shame really!
    Always try to be at least half the person your dog thinks you are!
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 1st Jul 12, 9:36 PM
    • 2,623 Posts
    • 1,748 Thanks
    Johnmcl7
    Quite a refreshing post from, I assume, a cyclist.

    The bit in bold is worrying. If what you say is correct then no amount of training (motorist or cyclist) is going to make a jot of difference.
    Originally posted by Paradigm
    Yes, I'm a cyclist, car driver and motorcyclist so I don't really have an us vs them attitude with any of it.

    As an example of the effectiveness of proficiency courses, the local school (as I'm sure most do) teaches pupils cycling schools yet this seems to get completely ignored when they are cycling to and from school as many of them seem to pay no attention to other traffic and dangerously shoot suddenly across the road or straight across the middle of junctions through red lights.

    I don't really understand why some cyclists are so reckless as I feel vulnerable on the bike and therefore it's in my best interests to ride following the rules of the road (rather than unpredictably cutting across junctions, red lights and one way streets) and to be very aware of the traffic around me.

    John
    • custardy
    • By custardy 1st Jul 12, 9:42 PM
    • 35,249 Posts
    • 29,935 Thanks
    custardy
    I'm afraid you need to understand that Custardy is never wrong, and does quite like an argument.

    The reality is that some drivers are rubbish and need a refresher course, and some cyclists are rubbish and need to be taught how to obey the highway code - like the cyclist who shouted at me because I was in his way, as I crossed the road on a green man. And the two who failed to stop for me at a zebra crossing, they were closely followed by idiot car drivers who were so keen to get passed the cyclists that they ignored me too.

    There are idiots in all sections of road users, and the sooner that people realise this and take it in to account when they are on the roads, the better. Cyclists are not 'saintly environmentally friendly people' and car drivers do not 'own the road'
    Originally posted by Mrs Imp
    however you aren't dead
    The same doesnt seem to ring true for many cyclists
    over 40 this year already
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 1st Jul 12, 10:04 PM
    • 16,899 Posts
    • 23,894 Thanks
    antrobus
    Other than the fact that the drivers concerned were acquitted by a jury you mean.

    Stumped by this one mind you. I don't quite understand how driving at 60mph where there's a 40mph limit and ending up on the wrong side of the road on a double bend doesn't amount to dangerous driving. Seems positively lethal me. Driver should have got 3-5 for that; even for causing death by careless driving he should have got 1-2. I'd shoot the sherriff myself.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 1st Jul 12, 10:06 PM
    • 35,249 Posts
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    custardy
    Other than the fact that the drivers concerned were acquitted by a jury you mean.



    Stumped by this one mind you. I don't quite understand how driving at 60mph where there's a 40mph limit and ending up on the wrong side of the road on a double bend doesn't amount to dangerous driving. Seems positively lethal me. Driver should have got 3-5 for that; even for causing death by careless driving he should have got 1-2. I'd shoot the sherriff myself.
    Originally posted by antrobus
    yup and it begs the question why.
    The way the trial/evidence was handled or as simple as a common view of it being the cyclists fault

    oh and go looking for the old favourite.
    low sun

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120524/Delivery-driver-Paul-Luker-hit-killed-RAF-officer-Tom-Barrett-escapes-jail-sun.html

    http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/Dead-cyclist-s-family-says-verdict-means-justice/story-13077373-detail/story.html
    Last edited by custardy; 01-07-2012 at 10:15 PM.
  • mikey72
    Maybe there's more to it. http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2008/11/24/cyclists-family-calls-for-killer-road-to-close/ http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Fife/article/1093/driver-who-killed-cyclist-gets-community-service.html
    • custardy
    • By custardy 1st Jul 12, 10:24 PM
    • 35,249 Posts
    • 29,935 Thanks
    custardy
    Don't see how

    he was 10mph over the limit(I assuming this is an estimate from where the hard braking started)
    this is a wet road,approaching a double S bend. so I would say not a section of road to take at the limit surely?

    "The incident took place because the accused was driving at 10mph over the speed limit," said Mr Sneddon.

    "Had he not been doing so, this accident would not have happened. He accepts that and it is something he will have to live with.
    a 1 year driving ban seems paltry along with community service
  • Sgt Pepper
    Don't see how

    he was 10mph over the limit(I assuming this is an estimate from where the hard braking started)
    this is a wet road,approaching a double S bend. so I would say not a section of road to take at the limit surely?



    a 1 year driving ban seems paltry along with community service
    Originally posted by custardy
    Seems he got the going rate, same as if he'd killed a car driver, so what's your point?
    Last edited by Sgt Pepper; 01-07-2012 at 11:00 PM.
    • Crabman
    • By Crabman 1st Jul 12, 10:52 PM
    • 9,741 Posts
    • 7,171 Thanks
    Crabman
    All road users should be registered, insured & taxed. This includes cycles.
    Originally posted by Paradigm
    Registration and compulsory third-party insurance for cyclists needs to happen asap. Cyclists do cause damage and they also cause personal injury to pedestrians. They should therefore be insured and registered so they can be held accountable for their actions.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Savings & Investments, ISAs & Tax-free Savings, Public Transport & Cycling, Motoring and Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking Boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board Guides are not moderators & don't read every post. If you spot a contentious or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com

    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 1st Jul 12, 11:13 PM
    • 14,949 Posts
    • 13,534 Thanks
    zagfles
    As a cyclist and a driver I agree on this point. Apart from being covered in every Cycle training course, this is detailed in the highway code rules 72 and 73
    You mean these idiots?

    Dave
    Originally posted by Dave_C
    Yes, anyone stupid enough not to understand what a red light means.

    I was witness to a accident a few years ago - I was sat at a red light at a junction with a turning to the left. The oncoming traffic had a green light and filter green to turn right, ie across the "straight on" path from where I was.

    Some idiot cyclist came past me and went through the red light going straight on, at the same time as some idiot motorist from the opposite direction turned right without indicating. Result - motorist drove straight into the cyclist right in front of me.

    I immediately dialled 999 for an ambulance but it turned out the cyclist wasn't seriously injured, though his bike was wrecked. He managed to get up and start a slanging match with the motorist before I was off the phone. The police also arrived, they took a statement off me and I never heard anything more. Hopefully both the numpties learned a valuable lesson...
  • mikey72
    Yes, anyone stupid enough not to understand what a red light means.

    I was witness to a accident a few years ago - I was sat at a red light at a junction with a turning to the left. The oncoming traffic had a green light and filter green to turn right, ie across the "straight on" path from where I was.

    Some idiot cyclist came past me and went through the red light going straight on, at the same time as some idiot motorist from the opposite direction turned right without indicating. Result - motorist drove straight into the cyclist right in front of me.

    I immediately dialled 999 for an ambulance but it turned out the cyclist wasn't seriously injured, though his bike was wrecked. He managed to get up and start a slanging match with the motorist before I was off the phone. The police also arrived, they took a statement off me and I never heard anything more. Hopefully both the numpties learned a valuable lesson...
    Originally posted by zagfles
    We'll wait for all the IAM drivers to tell us you don't need to indicate. To be fair, I may not in that position. It's a filter lane, where else are you going?
    • custardy
    • By custardy 2nd Jul 12, 3:48 AM
    • 35,249 Posts
    • 29,935 Thanks
    custardy
    Registration and compulsory third-party insurance for cyclists needs to happen asap. Cyclists do cause damage and they also cause personal injury to pedestrians. They should therefore be insured and registered so they can be held accountable for their actions.
    Originally posted by Crabman
    So that will cut down on cyclist deaths and injuries. which unlike all other oad users,appears to be on the rise (although needs validation on number of cyclists vs accidents)
    The taxi that caused my accident was registered,insured & licenced
    Didnt change anything for me. was he/she held accountable? or did they simply drive off and leave me for dead on the road?
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