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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Eesha
    • By MSE Eesha 22nd Apr 18, 8:48 PM
    • 117Posts
    • 29Thanks
    MSE Eesha
    Martin Lewis to sue Facebook for defamation in groundbreaking campaigning lawsuit
    • #1
    • 22nd Apr 18, 8:48 PM
    Martin Lewis to sue Facebook for defamation in groundbreaking campaigning lawsuit 22nd Apr 18 at 8:48 PM
    This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.





    Please click 'post reply' to discuss below.
Page 1
    • PositiveBalance
    • By PositiveBalance 22nd Apr 18, 11:27 PM
    • 1,018 Posts
    • 5,378 Thanks
    PositiveBalance
    • #2
    • 22nd Apr 18, 11:27 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Apr 18, 11:27 PM
    FB allowing fraudsters to get away with using Martin's image to take money from those who aren't technologically savvy enough to realise it's a scam is terrible and I can understand why he has felt the need to take the step he has to protect them, himself and, by extension, MSE.

    Martin has considerable clout, so FB aren't just going to be able to roll their eyes and try to explain this all away. All the very best to him!
    Original debt to source: 11,640.02; debt repaid: 6771.01 (58%); remaining debt: 5069.01
    0% CC balance: 4999.67 now
    1517.56 (69.65% repaid)
    Emergency Fund (#187): 500/500
    Terrimundi: fleeced!
    • roddydogs
    • By roddydogs 23rd Apr 18, 5:13 AM
    • 6,189 Posts
    • 2,631 Thanks
    roddydogs
    • #3
    • 23rd Apr 18, 5:13 AM
    • #3
    • 23rd Apr 18, 5:13 AM
    Dont understand why Dragons den hasnt also with that fake bitcoin ad that FB keeps running.
    • aidrenegade
    • By aidrenegade 23rd Apr 18, 6:45 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    aidrenegade
    • #4
    • 23rd Apr 18, 6:45 AM
    • #4
    • 23rd Apr 18, 6:45 AM
    All this face recognition stuff and they still can't weed out fake ads. Saw same style ad on yahoo today.
    Aid Renegade
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 23rd Apr 18, 7:03 AM
    • 12,021 Posts
    • 26,227 Thanks
    POPPYOSCAR
    • #5
    • 23rd Apr 18, 7:03 AM
    • #5
    • 23rd Apr 18, 7:03 AM
    Very pleased to her this.

    It is about time these companies were held to account.

    Well done Martin Lewis!
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 23rd Apr 18, 7:04 AM
    • 27,806 Posts
    • 13,680 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #6
    • 23rd Apr 18, 7:04 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Apr 18, 7:04 AM
    Surely everyone will support Martin in his action.

    Is it not possible to also sue some of the scammers?

    Fake Adverts like 'Fake News' are the scourge of our time.
    • Wizard of Id
    • By Wizard of Id 23rd Apr 18, 8:06 AM
    • 5,493 Posts
    • 18,389 Thanks
    Wizard of Id
    • #7
    • 23rd Apr 18, 8:06 AM
    • #7
    • 23rd Apr 18, 8:06 AM
    Is he going to bring the hammer down on Yahoo as well?

    I'm forever seeing his face on all sorts of banner ads when I open my email page.
    • oldagetraveller
    • By oldagetraveller 23rd Apr 18, 9:10 AM
    • 3,281 Posts
    • 1,779 Thanks
    oldagetraveller
    • #8
    • 23rd Apr 18, 9:10 AM
    • #8
    • 23rd Apr 18, 9:10 AM
    Is he going to bring the hammer down on Yahoo as well?

    I'm forever seeing his face on all sorts of banner ads when I open my email page.
    Originally posted by Wizard of Id
    Exactly, they've been appearing on Yahoo for ages as "sponsored" links.
    R.I.P. U.K. Democracy.
    • Leon W
    • By Leon W 23rd Apr 18, 9:10 AM
    • 1,675 Posts
    • 1,121 Thanks
    Leon W
    • #9
    • 23rd Apr 18, 9:10 AM
    • #9
    • 23rd Apr 18, 9:10 AM
    It's all well and good Facebook saying that if you see an advert then let us know and we'll remove it, but who realistically has the resources to scour Facebook continually looking for fake adds ?? That's a full time job for a team of people. And even then, they'll just pop up again somewhere else.

    Surely the onus should be on Facebook to screen the adds before publishing them (for that is what they are doing) and not put the onus on the injured party to report.

    • nic_c
    • By nic_c 23rd Apr 18, 9:31 AM
    • 1,899 Posts
    • 1,016 Thanks
    nic_c
    This news story is running in the press, on the Guardian ad supported mobile app it had it with an advert in - and guess what that advert was for ... "save 1000's based on this Martin Lewis article" seems to be a similarly fake ad.
    Took a screenshot
    • PositiveBalance
    • By PositiveBalance 23rd Apr 18, 10:08 AM
    • 1,018 Posts
    • 5,378 Thanks
    PositiveBalance
    This news story is running in the press, on the Guardian ad supported mobile app it had it with an advert in - and guess what that advert was for ... "save 1000's based on this Martin Lewis article" seems to be a similarly fake ad.
    Took a screenshot
    Originally posted by nic_c
    Martin has pointed this out to The Guardian and Sky by tweet this morning...

    Bit awkward for them.
    Original debt to source: 11,640.02; debt repaid: 6771.01 (58%); remaining debt: 5069.01
    0% CC balance: 4999.67 now
    1517.56 (69.65% repaid)
    Emergency Fund (#187): 500/500
    Terrimundi: fleeced!
    • codger
    • By codger 23rd Apr 18, 4:22 PM
    • 1,785 Posts
    • 3,470 Thanks
    codger
    Martin has pointed this out to The Guardian and Sky by tweet this morning... Bit awkward for them
    Originally posted by PositiveBalance
    More than ever, there's a need for a crackdown on websites taking in ad revenue from criminals engaged in serial fraud. As oldagetraveller points out in this thread, it's not merely a Facebook, or social media, issue: Yahoo! has been profiting mightily from the criminal activity of others for a heck of a long time, and it's far from being the only one.

    What needs to be established is a simple rule, viz: that once a website owner has been notified of a fraudulent ad, it has 72 hours from receipt of notice to remove the material. Failure to do so means that at 72hours plus, the website owner will from then on be deemed to be in receipt of income from criminal activity, and as such is guilty of aiding and abetting the commission of a crime.

    It's good news for everyone that Martin Lewis has decided to take a stand on this where Facebook is concerned, because his name, image and reputation have been systematically traduced.

    He's not, of course, alone; as roddydogs says, it's amazing that not for mere days or even weeks, but actually for months, BBC TV's 'Dragons' Den' has featured in a major criminal deception whose success derives entirely from fraudulent ads on numerous 'legit' websites that link to fake websites operated by the criminals themselves.

    One such fake website and the 'Dragons Den' scam it is running, can be found here (NOTE: this IS a scam website; the fraudsters have taken the established web address of an American digital watch manufacturer and simply added a suffix, then represented the site as news media. It's one of dozens, perhaps hundreds, of similar fake news sites):

    http://bastilletime.com/den/

    Perhaps Mark Seddon's law firm (representing Martin Lewis) ought to be getting in touch with the BBC or even the Dragons themselves.

    Best of luck to Martin.

    * As an aside, it's been interesting to see the German media giant Axel Springer campaigning to outlaw Internet ad blockers on the grounds that a computer user who blocks an ad is actually interfering with the right of an individual or enterprise to trade.

    The German courts have thrown out Springer's nauseating attempts at every turn but it still hasn't given up.
    Last edited by codger; 23-04-2018 at 4:28 PM.
    • MagikGimp
    • By MagikGimp 23rd Apr 18, 5:18 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    MagikGimp
    Microsoft Network (MSN.com)
    Martin should be equally concerned, perhaps even more so, that Microsoft are showing these ads on the main page that loads when you use their Edge Internet browser. This is certainly not a problem unique to Facebook.
    I don't know if they're still appearing but I've certainly had some appear recently. And I block ads! They're very convincing as they appear alongside regular articles (not off to one side, not marked with the advertising symbol as elsewhere, are sprinkled amongst other headlines) and look identical except for "Sponsored" being underneath them. As we already know, the scam articles look very good and they can easily be mistaken for a genuine online tabloid webpage. They have videos and quotes and everything. Because I block ads I was fooled for a bit until I realised the whole thing sounded pretty sketchy at best. I didn't know that Martin doesn't do online advertising but I'm not interested in BitCoin so I didn't take the scam's message any further.
    It seems somebody can afford all these horrible ads. Someone who has presumably done well out of crypto-currency!
    Last edited by MagikGimp; 23-04-2018 at 5:22 PM.
    • tghe-retford
    • By tghe-retford 23rd Apr 18, 6:00 PM
    • 373 Posts
    • 4,246 Thanks
    tghe-retford
    Martin has pointed this out to The Guardian and Sky by tweet this morning...

    Bit awkward for them.
    Originally posted by PositiveBalance
    He should also be pointing that out to Google AdSense as it is them that served up the advertisement (you can see the AdSense logo in the top right of the advertisement).

    There are potential fallouts and precedents that could be set from this case if Martin wins. All worldwide web services which are accessible in the United Kingdom will be legally responsible for everything posted and advertised on their website or service. What will likely happen is that websites will increase moderation for fear of defamation lawsuits and scammers and will also vet advertisers (as television and radio stations do as legally licensed broadcasters as failing to do so could ultimately result in the loss of your licence by Ofcom). Lower advertising revenue as a result will likely increase the likelihood of services having to paywall content and services to make up the shortfall. There are rumours abound with the recent scandal regarding privacy at Facebook of a paywall going up for some aspects of Facebook as a potential solution - that'll be far more likely if advertising revenue takes a hit.

    There are potential consequences for the principle of free speech (and no, that is not pro-scamming and not pro-defamation to preempt any strawmanning) and free to access websites and services if we are not careful that could come about as a result of this lawsuit.
    • MothballsWallet
    • By MothballsWallet 23rd Apr 18, 6:01 PM
    • 13,414 Posts
    • 18,587 Thanks
    MothballsWallet
    And what's worse is: what if any of the people placing these scam ads are driving their gains to ISIS?
    Always ask yourself one question: What would Gibbs do?

    I live in the UK City of Culture 2021
    • nic_c
    • By nic_c 23rd Apr 18, 7:58 PM
    • 1,899 Posts
    • 1,016 Thanks
    nic_c
    He should also be pointing that out to Google AdSense as it is them that served up the advertisement (you can see the AdSense logo in the top right of the advertisement).

    There are potential fallouts and precedents that could be set from this case if Martin wins. All worldwide web services which are accessible in the United Kingdom will be legally responsible for everything posted and advertised on their website or service. What will likely happen is that websites will increase moderation for fear of defamation lawsuits and scammers and will also vet advertisers (as television and radio stations do as legally licensed broadcasters as failing to do so could ultimately result in the loss of your licence by Ofcom). Lower advertising revenue as a result will likely increase the likelihood of services having to paywall content and services to make up the shortfall. There are rumours abound with the recent scandal regarding privacy at Facebook of a paywall going up for some aspects of Facebook as a potential solution - that'll be far more likely if advertising revenue takes a hit.

    There are potential consequences for the principle of free speech (and no, that is not pro-scamming and not pro-defamation to preempt any strawmanning) and free to access websites and services if we are not careful that could come about as a result of this lawsuit.
    Originally posted by tghe-retford
    More vetting does not necessarily mean lower ad revenues, especially since having ads vetted may make consumers more likely to trust and interact with them if there is some integrity - you are more likely to click an ad on a website you trust than one you don't and if the website states they vet all ads then you would get higher click throughs and so be able to charge more.
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 24th Apr 18, 1:39 AM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 2,565 Thanks
    fun4everyone
    There are potential fallouts and precedents that could be set from this case if Martin wins. All worldwide web services which are accessible in the United Kingdom will be legally responsible for everything posted and advertised on their website or service.
    Originally posted by tghe-retford
    • boatman
    • By boatman 24th Apr 18, 11:45 AM
    • 4,141 Posts
    • 2,921 Thanks
    boatman
    Here is another ad, not facebook though.
    Last edited by boatman; 24-04-2018 at 11:45 AM. Reason: ii
    • Robboseven
    • By Robboseven 24th Apr 18, 11:57 AM
    • 86 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Robboseven
    What about Google?
    You may want to sue Google too. Ads for "Finance Expert 247" pop up all over the place using Google Ads complete with a photo and stating it's your new business
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 24th Apr 18, 9:48 PM
    • 8,115 Posts
    • 42,285 Thanks
    MSE Martin
    Thanks for all the notes above. The bizarre thing is programmatica ads means as the story of me suing facebook got bigger, more of these ads came out of the woodwork. I'm talkign with my legal team about how to approach them.

    Facebook though has been doign it more and logner and on notice far more than the rest.
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.

    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.

    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
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